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Brexit

Westminstenders: And I neeeedddd moreeeee timeeeeee!

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 14/03/2019 12:57

We need Time!
Its the one thing we don't have.

Todays vote is on extending a50.

To the displeasure of leavers, Bercow has selected amendments:

e) Corbyn Amendment
demands the government should “provide parliamentary time for this house to find a majority for a different approach”.

h) Wollaston Amendment
cross party amendment requesting to extend to allow the ability to legislate for a PV

i) Benn Amendment
cross party backbenchers take over parliamentary time from 20th March to find a majority way forward which gives justification for an extension

j) Bryant Amendment
prevents meaningful vote III

After yesterday's vote, May is left with effectively four options:

1) Pass the WA and go for a short technical extension.
An extension would have numbers in the HoC, but passing the WA is a struggle and it's reliant on the EU granting extension which is probably viable in this circumstances.

2) Be defeated getting the WA through and be forced into asking for a long extension as a result. This would include EP elections.
This option is politically toxic to the tories and its unlikely a long extension would pass the HoC. The EU would still need a justification for a long extension - a PV would be the natural option - but not clear if that could pass the HoC. Ditto passing legislation for EP elections. Whole scenario is unlikely

3) Be forced to revoke
Tory party big red button of self destruct

4) Actively decide to pursue an illegal no deal Brexit
Let's not think of the ramification

Going through this at speed, my initial reactions to this are:

If e) passes it doesn't really make much difference to May's choices here, but Labour might have more say.

If h) passes it might make 2) more likely

If i) passes it might open up alternative options

If j) passes we might have a real issue if its the only amendment that passes - it would leave a straight choice of Revoke or No Deal UNLESS i) passes as well.

But there might be other things that are not hitting me right in the face now.

As it stands, Hard Line Brexiteers were earlier today making noises that they would now support the WA - including whispers that this would include the DUP who would be likely to set off a chain reaction of support.

However which (if any) amendments pass today could well affect whether thats even a possibility.

As a result this vote needs to carry the health warning 'Be Careful what you wish for'. What you would LIKE might be extremely high risk and might jeapordise the main vote and the chances of an extension at all.

So whilst Leavers might be unhappy about the choices, it might well ultimately work best for No Dealers. Or it could be a gift for Remainers. Bercow's selections are not necessarily biased for this reason. He does not know the outcome here. If anything it looks like he's actually trying to put more options on the table for the house, rather than allow May to dictate to the house. Which is exactly what he should be doing. He's given parliament the power.

I suspect we will not fully understand what is going on tonight EVEN MORE than last night. And it will take a short while for everyone to calibrate what the eventual result actually is going to mean.

THIS is the most important vote yet. And it has the potential its going to end up m-e-s-s-y.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
31
Butterymuffin · 14/03/2019 17:34

Sorry, that was the Powell amendment of the Benn amendment - saying extension till 30 June and parliament takes control from 20 March. That didn't get through. By 3.

phpolly · 14/03/2019 17:34

omg just 3 votes

BigChocFrenzy · 14/03/2019 17:34

Leave and Remain alike thought that poisoning all the alternatives would leave their preferred way as the only option.

Unfortunately, it has just resulted in all options being poisoned.

EweSurname · 14/03/2019 17:34

So if Benn’s AMendment is passed, it won’t be time limited?

phpolly · 14/03/2019 17:34

OK so Benn amendment itself up next?

Fazackerley · 14/03/2019 17:34

Why did Labour abstain ??

BigChocFrenzy · 14/03/2019 17:35

I fear the HoC will continue to vote against doing anything

Fazackerley · 14/03/2019 17:35

Benns amendment will get through

phpolly · 14/03/2019 17:36

Fazackerley I certainly hope so

RedToothBrush · 14/03/2019 17:36

The last vote was a vote about an amendment to the Benn amendment.

This vote is a vote on the Benn amendment itself.

The vote on the amendment to the amendment suggests this vote will be close.

This is the significant one.

Sounds like only 2 people need to change their mind for the Benn amendment to pass.

OP posts:
WordsAndWorlds · 14/03/2019 17:36

I'm so confused....

2nd Referendum def out, right? Are there any meaningful things getting through?

prettybird · 14/03/2019 17:37

The Benn amendment will be too close to call very close.

My instinctive reaction to it is that it is very woolly but he has apparently been working on this for many months and has cross party support. So one has to assume (and yes, I know that is a rusk in the current clusterfuck) that as a highly experienced and astute politician, he must have a plan for what do with that time, should his amendment prevail.

BigChocFrenzy · 14/03/2019 17:38

C'mon we need this to pass, so MPs can find out what they want !

Camomila · 14/03/2019 17:38

Wasn't that just the amendment to the main Binn one? I hope this one works!

phpolly · 14/03/2019 17:39

all fingers crossed

BigChocFrenzy · 14/03/2019 17:39

Surely MPs won't vote NOT to find out what they want ...

RedToothBrush · 14/03/2019 17:39

2nd Referendum def out, right?

No. Its just that the timing of this vote wasn't right. Possible a future vote could allow a 2nd ref.

OP posts:
Lweji · 14/03/2019 17:39

If I understand this, this (I) is just to discuss it again next Wednesday.
Then there's the Labour ammendment (E) asking for more parliamentary time to bloody discuss it all again (so, in effect, asking for a delay) but with no deadline.

Camomila · 14/03/2019 17:39

Benn not Binn that's a teacher at Hogwarts

tobee · 14/03/2019 17:39

Wondering if Mark D'Arcy and Dr Ruth Fox of the BBC Parliament Channel are going to become cult figures for nerds.Grin I like listening to them on the channel. Give you a good mixture of knowledge with a little bit of gossip!

BigChocFrenzy · 14/03/2019 17:39

She said she'd bring it back at a later (maybe not much later) date

Lweji · 14/03/2019 17:40

And finally, ammendment J to prevent May from asking for a third vote on her deal.

BigChocFrenzy · 14/03/2019 17:41

Reminder about Benn's amendment:
“to enable the House of Commons to find a way forward that can command majority support"

SparklySneakers · 14/03/2019 17:41

I feel very stressed. These votes seem to mean nothing

SparklySneakers · 14/03/2019 17:42

Why don't they vote electronically? Save loads of time!