So May has lost the vote. Now what?!

[BIWI]

Lost it by a big margin - 391 to 242.

Please, God, that means we're nearer to staying in the EU.

Well the results you're all citing sound like everyone wanted to remain. Somebody had to have voted to leave? I remember it well, went to bed at 12am, asked receptionist next morning who won and she said 'Leave'. I was like 'What?' The earlier counts I'd seen were indicating Remain all the way.

Oxford remain (70/30)

@7Pip perhaps they miscounted

OP, I am hoping they will vote against leaving with no deal tomorrow and support for a referendum will emerge. I don't think there is time to organise this however. Ultimately, perhaps a small group of extremists within the conservative party will have their way and we will leave with no deal. I'm sure they are all set with their millions, ready to exploit the crisis.

Anyone remember Nigel Garage conceding defeat in the referendum? How much money did he and his pals subsequently make on the money markets our of that? Who is overseeing how much money people like this make out of no-deal?

I can't imagine anyone would want Theresa May's job right now and don't see any point in a general election. Who is there with any credibility to vote for? Would anyone turn out to vote? What if there's lots on TV that day? It would really bring home how our democracy has utterly failed and is no longer fit for purpose.

What a shit show.

Both the EU & our government are now panicking because there are EU elections coming up at the end of May. So if we are still part of the EU then we have the right to have representatives in the EU. I think they all thought we would be out by 29 March & Theresa May losing the vote tonight has thrown a spanner in the works, that will get bigger if she loses the No deal vote tomorrow & massive if the vote goes to extend Article 50 on Thursday.

Tomorrow presumably MPs will vote not to crash out

Maybe not

The day after they may decide to beg the EU for an extension of Ar 50 notice which may or may not be agreed and if it is may come with expensive conditions

For sure expensive conditions. Just like a Contractor paying Liquidated Damages when he goes beyond his Contract Completion Date.

Which surely means that all this 'Brexit means Brexit' horseshit is a load of absolute toss as, er, no it doesn't actually

Article 50 was initiated.

NotOnTheBeach
We cannot stay in the EU with no say on any of the rules so we need to exit. Let's go!

Let me get this straight. The UK is still a member of the EU, and as a member has (and has always had) a full say in the making of the rules, whether trade or labour laws or agricultural rules on animal welfare and food standards, etc.

Over the last decade the value of the UK's exports to the EU has been from 12%-15% of the UK economy annually. The UK has managed to trade with countries outside the EU while still a full member. Membership has not stopped the UK from trading outside the EU...

Now the plan that is advocated is to leave/ burn the bridges, and make sure the UK will never have any say in the making of the rules we will have to observe if we ever want to trade with any EU state from now on, and also to enter into complex negotiations with countries that are trading partners anyway, but because of leaving the EU new terms will be necessary and there is no guarantee of advantageous terms for British industry or agriculture or services. In fact, there is a strong likelihood that the price of a trade deal with the US will be the destruction of British agriculture, the NHS, and imports of American food and pricey medications, along with American standards in labour laws, and ultimately the end of the welfare state because the UK will be flat stony broke after five years of a neo-lib agenda.

But YAHOO!! Let's GO!! The sooner the better!! Why are we still here!!

Then I remember that it's my country so the jokes still on me

Whatever the outcome of Brexit, good or bad, it will affect everyone regardless of how they voted in 2016.

Leicester voted remain. Our richer neighbours in Leicestershire voted leave. There was a similar pattern around the country with lots of cities voting remain.

They won't for some bizarre reason allow people say that immigration was the issue

Immigration was a massive deciding factor in the vote to leave. Who ever thought otherwise?

www.businessinsider.com/united-kingdom-referedum-map-divide-2016-6
There's a map showing the vote result here^^.

While the image in blue/yellow might suggest a lot of 'leave' votes, urban areas tend to have higher population density, and so, even in England and Wales, the victory margin for Leave was not at all decisive.

you have hit the nail on the head

But the wrong head?

the victory margin for Leave was not at all decisive

In a 2 horse race the first past the post wins. Even if it only by a fat lip.

Yes of course an inch is as good as a mile.

But to claim that margin as an expression of 'the will of the people' is flat out disingenuous.

Everybody voted every man for himself

Because that is their right.

Yes of course an inch is as good as a mile

It was a two horse race and the bad losers don't like the result.

But to claim that margin as an expression of 'the will of the people' is flat out disingenuous

It is the will of the majority of people who voted. No requirement to win by a specific margin. Even of leave had only one more vote than remain it would still be a leave win.

People's Vote march is on Saturday 23 March leaving from Park Lane at 12 noon and marching to Parliament Square.

People's Vote march

The 'bad losers' were actually the winners in two of the four constituent provinces of the United Kingdom. Those areas now find themselves dictated to by what is essentially English opinion.

So it's not even a case of 'the will of the majority who voted' (which is not equal to 'the will of the people' btw).

It's actually 'the will of the majority who voted in one province' imposed on everyone else.

When people talk about Scotland voting remain it comes across as though every single person in Scotland voted remain. They didn't. It was roughly 70/30 to remain

62% voted to remain in EU which was 1,661,191 votes

In the 2014 independence referendum 55% voted to remain in UK which was 2,001,926 votes.

So in terms of physical votes Scotland prefers to be in UK more than EU?

If you are going to bring up the Indyref, let's not forget that Scotland was assured by the Westminster government of the time that a vote to stay in the UK would ensure that Scotland remained in the EU.

It's actually 'the will of the majority who voted in one province' imposed on everyone else

Scotland had an independence referendum in 2014 whether or not they wanted to remain in UK or not. The voted to remain in the UK.

Has NI had an independence referendum? I don't remember such. If so why has NI not had a referendum? Surely it is their right just like it was in Scotland.

Total population of UK is about 67 million. NI is 2 million at best. Scotland around 5.5 million. So the two members of the UK that voted remain in the EU represent a mere 11% of the total. The two members that voted leave the EU represent the remaining 89% of UK population. A ratio of 8 to 1 in favour of leave.

Disadvantage of forming a union with a Country whose population is massively larger than your own is that the mindset of the member state that has the largest population is likely to prevail. In UK case 85% of total population is English. So if you have a national vote or a referendum then the odds are stacked in favour of the English opinion prevailing.

So if NI and Scotland do not like being pulled along by England the solution is simple - Leave the UK and go independent. After all what prevents such action?

was assured by the Westminster government of the time that a vote to stay in the UK would ensure that Scotland remained in the EU

Was that ever put in writing?

Scotland can have another Indyref as you call it on the basis of material change since 2014.

If the vote is to leave the UK and become independent then they can re-apply for EU membership. No certainty that EU would agree of course.

"Any takers for 'May resigns'?"

I'm so torn by this either "one can only hope" or "who the Fuck will take her place"? Genuinely concerned it could be someone along lines of JRM if not actually JRM and that terrifies me! I know theoretically he has little "claim to the throne" but no other bugger wants this poisoned chalice!

Even if it leads to a labour govt I fear that then Labour will get blamed for this shit show when it was sod all to do with them!

"She's like a zombie coated in Teflon. She'll be here clinging to the last cactus on the planet when the rest of us have been taken out by the apocalypse. Her and the cockroaches ..." Fuck yes even when she dies she'll come back to haunt us!

"No, we didn't. England did. Off they fuck then. Roll on IndyRef2." I fear this may well become reality.

"Is anyone else torn between wanting us to forget this whole Brexit nonsense and wanting it to go completely tits up to see the remorseful, guilty vote leavers faces? Then I remember that it's my country so the jokes still on me." I say put all the leavers in England and Wales, all the Remainers in Scotland and Northern Ireland and split uk in half! Leavers get to leave (and face the consequences they've been sticking their fingers in their ears and going "la la la" to for the last few years. Then again geographically maybe all the leavers should come to Scotland & Wales, Remainers in England & Northern Ireland being as they have the closest links to the eu, hard borders for Scotland and Wales residing leavers. Give em the physical distance they want. Although admittedly rewarding them with the gorgeousness of Scotland sticks in the gullet somewhat.,

Theshuttle - spot on!

"Wales votes to leave. Despite being a net beneficiary of the EU. EU money has paid for so much here in Wales; can't drive very far without seeing an EU flag sign.

Brexit will probably be catastrophic for most of the farmers." Exactly, I've always thought it particularly strange Wales voted leave - if they did. There's debate over the legality and accuracy of the result anyway.

7pip Kent and Sussex voted leave, Surrey mixed apparently

"Disadvantage of forming a union with a Country whose population is massively larger than your own is that the mindset of the member state that has the largest population is likely to prevail." Wow! So you've done a little reading but STILL not learnt the basics pointed out to you on the other thread. And you don't even really have a horse in the race as you don't and don't plan to live in the uk. Right?