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Brexit

Westminstenders: Are we nearly there yet?

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 12/03/2019 10:01

May went to Strasbourg to improve the WA. She claimed to have won 'legally binding' assurances which mean we can't be trapped in the backstop.

Despite the claim of 'legally binding' it seems that this isn't true. It reduces the risk of being trapped but does not eliminate it.

The whole thing is just political theatre designed to give Brexiteers the opportunity to climb down and support May's deal. Whether that will happen remains to seen.

The right wing press has largely been supportive of May this morning but the ERG were scathing last night which doesn't bode well.

For May to pass the deal she needs the DUP to effectively trigger dominoes of support. If she fails to get that it's highly unlikely it will pass.

In order to pass the deal May needs an extra 116 votes compared to last time. This breaks down to roughly 10 DUP, 65 of the ERG, 4 Independents (Field/Hermon /Hopkins/Austin) and 40 Labour.

The Labour MPs won't go for it unless the numbers look tight and the DUP are on board.

We should get a feel for how things are going as the day goes on. I expect more negative comments on it to be expressed as the day goes on.

We might yet see some amendments and curveball thrown into the mix too. However none of those tabled so far this morning look likely to pass (Labour are yet to table anything)

The Cabinet meets at 9.30am. This will give us an idea of how it's played out there.

At 11.15am Barclay faces the Brexit select committee so some more scrutiny there.

The crucial moment is early afternoon before as May opens the debate on the Meaningful Vote. It is expected there will be an Urgent Question tabled to Cox the Attorney General to assess whether his legal advice that the backstop could be a trap, has changed. This is where thing will come into focus and we will get a good idea of whether the deal will pass or how heavy the defeat will be. How heavy it is, is important.

Word is that Cox said no to the validity of May’s 'legally binding assurances' last night and has been pretty much been sent away to 'think about it with a team of lawyers'. Cox has replied this is "Bollocks". But you do have to wonder if this is what May did in the Home Office with her ridiculous court cases and the A50 case. None of which went well for her in court in the end. However Cox did tell The Mail yesterday he would only change his legal advice if the risk of being trapped was 'eliminated' not merely reduced.

If its going badly a No10 damage limitation exercise will be in full swing by about 4pm.

If The Withdrawal Agreement fails by a small amount May might be able to try again. If it fails by a lot we really are into political chaos. May's position might be untenable if the Cabinet withdraw their support. If May stays that's not necessarily going to stave off even greater crisis.

Theresa May looks likely to go for an extension until 23rd May. The EU have more or less agreed to this. But this might be too short to get an alternative plan on the table. And May would be unlikely to be the person to do this anyway as it requires a huge uturn. The 23rd May date is crucial - if the UK doesn't make contingency plans to take part in European Elections its a cliff edge. A deadline of 23rd May is also too short for another referendum.

The only way we get a 2nd ref is to take the option of a longer extension which requires us to take part in European elections, and this is politically unpalatable to many Tories as it endangers Brexit completely.

This is what ERGers need to weigh up. Are they really committed to no deal. If they are not then the WA is perhaps the only way to stop no deal AND the possibility of no brexit.

However the chances of the legislation for European elections and a long extension getting through the Commons looks extremely unlikely too. But who knows where we will be come the end of April.

Thus if the WA fails then the chances of No Deal sky rocket, even if no deal is blocked by Parliament tomorrow. Unless those same MPs are prepared to vote for EP elections further down the line if need be. This might be the only way to truly block no deal. Has this dawned on Tory moderates? And that's what remain moderates and Labour MPs need to weigh up. I don't think the penny has dropped with many. Yet.

The trouble is that the WA problem is really with hardline ERG Tories not moderates nor Labour anyway.

Voting starts at 7pm.

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DGRossetti · 12/03/2019 13:03

BBC appear to have woken up - they are reporting "no change" in situation (suggesting no change in outcome).

Also their take on economic news is from the gloomy end of the street.

Songsofexperience · 12/03/2019 13:04

No comment other than looking out the window at the storm puts me right in the mood:

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/mar/12/brexit-ads-nothing-sweeten-no-deal

Mistigri · 12/03/2019 13:06

Once upon a time, when my DS was 10 or 11 and we were starting the drive from the South of France to Northern Ireland for our holidays, we had only got to the roundabout at the edge of our town when he asked: "Are we nearly there yet?"

That's Brexit isn't it? A thousand mile journey and we have got as far as the first roundabout.

CordeliaEarhart · 12/03/2019 13:06

Thanks Kitten. I'm at a kids birthday party but should be done by 7.

Mistigri · 12/03/2019 13:07

Sterling not liking the uncertainty. My brexit-beating precious metals stash is up today.

ThereWillBeAdequateFood · 12/03/2019 13:09

Poor you cordelia kids party then the vote to look forward to. Hope you are planning a gin this evening.

SingingBabooshkaBadly · 12/03/2019 13:10

Thanks Red.

Wouldn’t now be the moment to resurrect the Kyle amendment as a matter or urgency or is that planned as the next stage e if/when the WA fails again tonight?

Peregrina · 12/03/2019 13:12

I am going out tonight - it looks like I will miss the excitement! I am relieved about this - I can't bear the tension, nor hearing May droning on and on.

One day I hope there will be an enquiry, but I might not still be around to see it.

DGRossetti · 12/03/2019 13:17

Wouldn’t now be the moment to resurrect the Kyle amendment as a matter or urgency or is that planned as the next stage e if/when the WA fails again tonight?

Maybe. Also some sticky tape on the windows and whitewash the walls ?

DGRossetti · 12/03/2019 13:18

I am going out tonight - it looks like I will miss the excitement!

I can save you the worry - WA will fail. Nothing will change the game, and we go into a no deal.

CordeliaEarhart · 12/03/2019 13:20

Hope you are planning a gin this evening.

I shall certainly be picking up some wine on the way home!

67chevvyimpala · 12/03/2019 13:21

I think the pain killers are helping

Maybe we should all just take strong analgesics til this is over?

not that we will be able to get any

RedToothBrush · 12/03/2019 13:25

DUP not going for WA.

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RedToothBrush · 12/03/2019 13:26

David Blevins @ skydavidblevins
DUP sources: “The party cannot support the Prime Minister’s deal in tonight’s vote.” #Brexit

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ZaZathecat · 12/03/2019 13:29

I wonder what all this will look like in the history books in 100 years time!

RedToothBrush · 12/03/2019 13:29

Paul Waugh @paulwaugh
As whole House laughs at @Geoffrey_Cox saying that it was always highly unlikely he'd ever be Attorney General under Cameron, one figure in the gallery was unsmiling: PM's husband Philip.

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DGRossetti · 12/03/2019 13:30

DUP not going for WA

And this is "news" ? Already called 3 hours ago on this thread.

ThereWillBeAdequateFood · 12/03/2019 13:30

I feel a bit unclean saying this but Geoffrey Cox has a sexy voice, a bit like Charles Dance. I’ve no idea what Cox looks like though (I’m guessing I’m better off not knowing).

SparklySneakers · 12/03/2019 13:32

@ThereWillBeAdequateFood if an overweight grey combover affectionado is your thing then he's perfect for you!

DGRossetti · 12/03/2019 13:32

one figure in the gallery was unsmiling: PM's husband Philip.

Remind me again, what the role of the PMs spouse in the UK constitution is ?

67chevvyimpala · 12/03/2019 13:32

We called this shitfest months ago!

Running down the clock.

TMs WA or no deal.

This is not news.

bellinisurge · 12/03/2019 13:33

Wash your mouth out @ThereWillBeAdequateFood . If you have soap spare in these tricky times Grin

RedToothBrush · 12/03/2019 13:33

Until someone at the DUP says it explicitly to a media source its not news even if we all guessed that what they would do.

I guess now, we are just down to wondering how big the defeat will be and how on earth May can stay as PM.

The rest of the afternoon is damage limitation time.

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DGRossetti · 12/03/2019 13:33

I feel a bit unclean saying this but Geoffrey Cox has a sexy voice,

There was an hilarious comment from an EU diplomat when he was in Europe last week about his voice bringing "boom and bust" to the EU ...

OhYouBadBadKitten · 12/03/2019 13:34

So if the ERG and the DUP even just abstain then the WA doesn't pass.