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Brexit

Westminstenders: Are we nearly there yet?

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 12/03/2019 10:01

May went to Strasbourg to improve the WA. She claimed to have won 'legally binding' assurances which mean we can't be trapped in the backstop.

Despite the claim of 'legally binding' it seems that this isn't true. It reduces the risk of being trapped but does not eliminate it.

The whole thing is just political theatre designed to give Brexiteers the opportunity to climb down and support May's deal. Whether that will happen remains to seen.

The right wing press has largely been supportive of May this morning but the ERG were scathing last night which doesn't bode well.

For May to pass the deal she needs the DUP to effectively trigger dominoes of support. If she fails to get that it's highly unlikely it will pass.

In order to pass the deal May needs an extra 116 votes compared to last time. This breaks down to roughly 10 DUP, 65 of the ERG, 4 Independents (Field/Hermon /Hopkins/Austin) and 40 Labour.

The Labour MPs won't go for it unless the numbers look tight and the DUP are on board.

We should get a feel for how things are going as the day goes on. I expect more negative comments on it to be expressed as the day goes on.

We might yet see some amendments and curveball thrown into the mix too. However none of those tabled so far this morning look likely to pass (Labour are yet to table anything)

The Cabinet meets at 9.30am. This will give us an idea of how it's played out there.

At 11.15am Barclay faces the Brexit select committee so some more scrutiny there.

The crucial moment is early afternoon before as May opens the debate on the Meaningful Vote. It is expected there will be an Urgent Question tabled to Cox the Attorney General to assess whether his legal advice that the backstop could be a trap, has changed. This is where thing will come into focus and we will get a good idea of whether the deal will pass or how heavy the defeat will be. How heavy it is, is important.

Word is that Cox said no to the validity of May’s 'legally binding assurances' last night and has been pretty much been sent away to 'think about it with a team of lawyers'. Cox has replied this is "Bollocks". But you do have to wonder if this is what May did in the Home Office with her ridiculous court cases and the A50 case. None of which went well for her in court in the end. However Cox did tell The Mail yesterday he would only change his legal advice if the risk of being trapped was 'eliminated' not merely reduced.

If its going badly a No10 damage limitation exercise will be in full swing by about 4pm.

If The Withdrawal Agreement fails by a small amount May might be able to try again. If it fails by a lot we really are into political chaos. May's position might be untenable if the Cabinet withdraw their support. If May stays that's not necessarily going to stave off even greater crisis.

Theresa May looks likely to go for an extension until 23rd May. The EU have more or less agreed to this. But this might be too short to get an alternative plan on the table. And May would be unlikely to be the person to do this anyway as it requires a huge uturn. The 23rd May date is crucial - if the UK doesn't make contingency plans to take part in European Elections its a cliff edge. A deadline of 23rd May is also too short for another referendum.

The only way we get a 2nd ref is to take the option of a longer extension which requires us to take part in European elections, and this is politically unpalatable to many Tories as it endangers Brexit completely.

This is what ERGers need to weigh up. Are they really committed to no deal. If they are not then the WA is perhaps the only way to stop no deal AND the possibility of no brexit.

However the chances of the legislation for European elections and a long extension getting through the Commons looks extremely unlikely too. But who knows where we will be come the end of April.

Thus if the WA fails then the chances of No Deal sky rocket, even if no deal is blocked by Parliament tomorrow. Unless those same MPs are prepared to vote for EP elections further down the line if need be. This might be the only way to truly block no deal. Has this dawned on Tory moderates? And that's what remain moderates and Labour MPs need to weigh up. I don't think the penny has dropped with many. Yet.

The trouble is that the WA problem is really with hardline ERG Tories not moderates nor Labour anyway.

Voting starts at 7pm.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
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MillytantForceit · 12/03/2019 10:04

"MPs were clear that changes were needed to the Backstop. Today, we have secured legal changes."

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47533666

(from 2:57)

Now did you see what she did, there?

67chevvyimpala · 12/03/2019 10:04

Cough 😷
Pmk

Sostenueto · 12/03/2019 10:07

Pmq

LonelyandTiredandLow · 12/03/2019 10:13

Awaiting a plumber today. Call centre said "it's funny, we've had loads of people servicing their boilers over the last few days"... I'm sure more people are preparing for the worst of this than the papers let on. They just don't want to look foolish in front of their mates for being "scared". My leaver friend has bought a new washing machine yesterday after I suggested they might be more expensive and not regulated as clearly after Brexit Hmm.

BigChocFrenzy · 12/03/2019 10:15

Thanks, red 💐

The problem all along has been that MPs reject all the options,
but don't seem to realise / care that this rejection, if continued, would automatically choose No Deal by default

Great arrogance still, that the EU / international treaties will somehow change if the UK stamps its foot hard enough.

Before MPs vote down the WA, their duty is to develop a better option that the EU would agree to - and also a reasonable prospect that a majority in the HoC would vote for it.
To date, they are still foot-stamping.

bellinisurge · 12/03/2019 10:17

I didn't get my boiler serviced when I should have done. It's on my list of things I don't want to think about. I wish I could put Brexit on that list.

icannotremember · 12/03/2019 10:18

I think it will either just pass, or be voted down with a small enough margin that May decides to bring it back for a third time with the hope that she can persuade enough of those MPs still opposed to drag it over the line.

Be interesting to see what Cox's advice is. I get the feeling a lot of MPs who want Brexit now desperately want an excuse to vote for the WA.

ThereWillBeAdequateFood · 12/03/2019 10:20

Pmk. Very nervous today. Part of me wants the WA to be voted down but I’m too scared of no deal.

DGRossetti · 12/03/2019 10:22

.

HighestMountains · 12/03/2019 10:24

Part of me wants the WA to be voted down but I’m too scared of no deal.

Same.

67chevvyimpala · 12/03/2019 10:27

I'm too ill for this today 😷😔

Lisette1940 · 12/03/2019 10:27

Pmk

SusanWalker · 12/03/2019 10:28

Pmk

Peregrina · 12/03/2019 10:32

Theresa May looks likely to go for an extension until 23rd May

I think her extension would have to stop the day before. 23-26th May is the window for the EP elections, which if we are still members on 23rd we would have to vote in.

If voting for the EP is likely, I have heard vague rumours that the May elections would be delayed until 23rd also. Financially there is some sense in this because elections cost, but it also prevents May getting a drubbing at the beginning of May, which might be laid at the door of Brexit.

SparklySneakers · 12/03/2019 10:33

PMK

Tomtontom · 12/03/2019 10:33

This has always been the plan hasn't it, wind down the clock to the point that the WA has to be voted for to avoid no deal.

I can think of many words for it, and democracy is not one of them.

Bathbombs · 12/03/2019 10:36

Pmk

TokyoSushi · 12/03/2019 10:36

PMK, it's going to be quite a day!

Peregrina · 12/03/2019 10:36

Now did you see what she did, there?

Do you mean her statement 'MPs were clear....' when it should have been 'a small handful of batshit crazy MPs were clear.....'?

littlemonkeyface · 12/03/2019 10:39

PMK

on tenterhooks...

Sostenueto · 12/03/2019 10:41

How much money or other sweetners will be offered covertly to the DUP to accept the deal?
Is the Attorney General really going to put his name to the changes and approve them? Maybe they will give him a lordship as a reward. Or a huge early retirement package because he won't be able to hold his head up in the HoC if his advice proves to be wrong.
I keep changing my mind about what outcome will be today so I'm not commiting to anything today to save embarrassment about being wrong.

ContinuityError · 12/03/2019 10:42

Online spread betting has 268-278 ayes for the WA tonight.

SparklySneakers · 12/03/2019 10:47

Watching Politics Today coming from Derby. It's embarrassing how ignorant one of the interviewees is.

Sostenueto · 12/03/2019 10:47