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Brexit

Westminstenders: Are we nearly there yet?

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 12/03/2019 10:01

May went to Strasbourg to improve the WA. She claimed to have won 'legally binding' assurances which mean we can't be trapped in the backstop.

Despite the claim of 'legally binding' it seems that this isn't true. It reduces the risk of being trapped but does not eliminate it.

The whole thing is just political theatre designed to give Brexiteers the opportunity to climb down and support May's deal. Whether that will happen remains to seen.

The right wing press has largely been supportive of May this morning but the ERG were scathing last night which doesn't bode well.

For May to pass the deal she needs the DUP to effectively trigger dominoes of support. If she fails to get that it's highly unlikely it will pass.

In order to pass the deal May needs an extra 116 votes compared to last time. This breaks down to roughly 10 DUP, 65 of the ERG, 4 Independents (Field/Hermon /Hopkins/Austin) and 40 Labour.

The Labour MPs won't go for it unless the numbers look tight and the DUP are on board.

We should get a feel for how things are going as the day goes on. I expect more negative comments on it to be expressed as the day goes on.

We might yet see some amendments and curveball thrown into the mix too. However none of those tabled so far this morning look likely to pass (Labour are yet to table anything)

The Cabinet meets at 9.30am. This will give us an idea of how it's played out there.

At 11.15am Barclay faces the Brexit select committee so some more scrutiny there.

The crucial moment is early afternoon before as May opens the debate on the Meaningful Vote. It is expected there will be an Urgent Question tabled to Cox the Attorney General to assess whether his legal advice that the backstop could be a trap, has changed. This is where thing will come into focus and we will get a good idea of whether the deal will pass or how heavy the defeat will be. How heavy it is, is important.

Word is that Cox said no to the validity of May’s 'legally binding assurances' last night and has been pretty much been sent away to 'think about it with a team of lawyers'. Cox has replied this is "Bollocks". But you do have to wonder if this is what May did in the Home Office with her ridiculous court cases and the A50 case. None of which went well for her in court in the end. However Cox did tell The Mail yesterday he would only change his legal advice if the risk of being trapped was 'eliminated' not merely reduced.

If its going badly a No10 damage limitation exercise will be in full swing by about 4pm.

If The Withdrawal Agreement fails by a small amount May might be able to try again. If it fails by a lot we really are into political chaos. May's position might be untenable if the Cabinet withdraw their support. If May stays that's not necessarily going to stave off even greater crisis.

Theresa May looks likely to go for an extension until 23rd May. The EU have more or less agreed to this. But this might be too short to get an alternative plan on the table. And May would be unlikely to be the person to do this anyway as it requires a huge uturn. The 23rd May date is crucial - if the UK doesn't make contingency plans to take part in European Elections its a cliff edge. A deadline of 23rd May is also too short for another referendum.

The only way we get a 2nd ref is to take the option of a longer extension which requires us to take part in European elections, and this is politically unpalatable to many Tories as it endangers Brexit completely.

This is what ERGers need to weigh up. Are they really committed to no deal. If they are not then the WA is perhaps the only way to stop no deal AND the possibility of no brexit.

However the chances of the legislation for European elections and a long extension getting through the Commons looks extremely unlikely too. But who knows where we will be come the end of April.

Thus if the WA fails then the chances of No Deal sky rocket, even if no deal is blocked by Parliament tomorrow. Unless those same MPs are prepared to vote for EP elections further down the line if need be. This might be the only way to truly block no deal. Has this dawned on Tory moderates? And that's what remain moderates and Labour MPs need to weigh up. I don't think the penny has dropped with many. Yet.

The trouble is that the WA problem is really with hardline ERG Tories not moderates nor Labour anyway.

Voting starts at 7pm.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
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MangoSplit · 12/03/2019 11:57

Pmk

GhostofFrankGrimes · 12/03/2019 12:02

They need to revoke and admit a sensible Brexit is not possible (at least with the headbangers crying foul). Didums to the fact that Britain’s colonial past (the border) has stifled Brexit.

DGRossetti · 12/03/2019 12:04

A 'firming up' of the Gibraltar border would be tedious but not the subject of bomb threats and other activity. It would of course be very inconvenient as so many live in Spain and commute over the border.

The population of Gibraltar - c. 30,000 is on a par with the population of my ward in Birmingham (25,000) with Gibraltar having a slightly higher population density.

Just for context and scale.

Peregrina · 12/03/2019 12:05

What could make May revoke? I firmly believe that the last election was called to stick it to Labour. What is the "stick it to Labour" option in this case? It backfired anyway, last time.

DGRossetti · 12/03/2019 12:06

At least Brexiteers are slowly reaping their own mendacity ...

If they had been honest before the vote about the GFA, and had a plan to renegotiate it as part of the Brexit process, we wouldn't be here now.

But that's not the quick fix they needed to dupe the less discerning voters.

Motheroffourdragons · 12/03/2019 12:06

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ to protect the privacy of the user.

Motheroffourdragons · 12/03/2019 12:07

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ to protect the privacy of the user.

DGRossetti · 12/03/2019 12:12

What could make May revoke?

In the novel I'm writing, the Queen summons TM, tells her to revoke and then announces her abdication, along with Charles and Wills simultaneous revocation of their titles as the dissolution of the Monarchy.

The penalty of Brexit needs to be not a return to how things were - that's impossible. So it needs to be a quantum leap forwards. And then Remainers will forever be able to blame Leavers for leading the UK into a republic state.

(It might not be a best seller ....)

BroomstickOfLove · 12/03/2019 12:16

Pmk

2beesornot2beesthatisthehoney · 12/03/2019 12:20

Well DGR I like the initial revoke but. Not sure about a republic
We might get DD or Tony Blair or Simon Cowell as president!

2beesornot2beesthatisthehoney · 12/03/2019 12:20

Simon Cowell as president is a long time nightmare of mine.

PostNotInHaste · 12/03/2019 12:21

PMK, thank you Red

BigChocFrenzy · 12/03/2019 12:21

2bees I hoping this revolutionary fervour will die down in the UK within a couple of years

Also, the new generation of Tories coming up don't seem as xenophobic as the current lot
Hence FOM could be less of an issue, especially in the Eastern economies continue to boom & increase pay there

If the political situation doesn't improve, them we're screwed whatever we do
and the EU wouldn't welcome back a bolshy UK, maybe actively trying to wreck the joint

BigChocFrenzy · 12/03/2019 12:23

sparkly 💐
Sounds like hell

1tisILeClerc · 12/03/2019 12:28

{The population of Gibraltar - c. 30,000 is on a par with the population of my ward in Birmingham (25,000) with Gibraltar having a slightly higher population density.}

Still makes for a tedious commute if you have 2 border officials obeying the rules and examining everyones passport every morning and evening.
Ref: Calais Eurostar.

Flowerplower · 12/03/2019 12:32

Pmk

SusanWalker · 12/03/2019 12:36

FT is reporting that the DUP aren't supporting the deal.

BollocksToBrexit · 12/03/2019 12:40

I'm almost at the "oh ffs just fuck off then" stage even though it's detrimental to me as a Brit in Europe.

Me too!

Me three. In fact I'd go as far as saying that I'm almost at the 'fuck off and I hope you crash and burn' stage. The only think holding me back is the knowledge that lots of people who didn't vote for this will suffer too.

67chevvyimpala · 12/03/2019 12:42

sparkly gastritis is horrendous. Poor you. If you can get any then PPIs are what you need x
I've put the humidifier on again

67chevvyimpala · 12/03/2019 12:43

You can get medium otc

BigChocFrenzy · 12/03/2019 12:47

Against include DUP, Remainer Tories, some ERG ...
So not much chance of passing then

btw, I've been naive.
I've just realised why Remain Tory MPs keep banging on about the backstop 🤦🏻‍♀️

They can't call openly for Remain
but passing the WA obviously ends any chance of Revoke
So they can cover their arses politically by claiming voting down the WA is about the backstop

In reality, they are following Blair's cunning plan of demonising any Brexit WA
in the hope that faced with No Deal, May & the HoC would agree at the last moment to Revoke

Of course, if their high-risk gamble fails, none of them will be on the breadline, or missing out on their meds

BigChocFrenzy · 12/03/2019 12:51

Rupert Harrison@rbrharrison

So now the deal will fail this evening by probably 100+ votes all because of para 19 of the legal advice,

despite the fact that para 17 shows the only reason for a pro-Brexit MP to reject the backstop is that you want to retain the option of imposing a hard border in Ireland

OhYouBadBadKitten · 12/03/2019 12:59

Listening to the AG - isn't he supposed to be delivering impartial advice, not trying to persuade people to one view point?

CordeliaEarhart · 12/03/2019 13:00

Does anybody know what time the vote is scheduled for tonight? Sorry if it has already been posted, I have read the thread but didn't see it.

OhYouBadBadKitten · 12/03/2019 13:02

7pm