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Brexit

Westminstenders: Are we nearly there yet?

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 12/03/2019 10:01

May went to Strasbourg to improve the WA. She claimed to have won 'legally binding' assurances which mean we can't be trapped in the backstop.

Despite the claim of 'legally binding' it seems that this isn't true. It reduces the risk of being trapped but does not eliminate it.

The whole thing is just political theatre designed to give Brexiteers the opportunity to climb down and support May's deal. Whether that will happen remains to seen.

The right wing press has largely been supportive of May this morning but the ERG were scathing last night which doesn't bode well.

For May to pass the deal she needs the DUP to effectively trigger dominoes of support. If she fails to get that it's highly unlikely it will pass.

In order to pass the deal May needs an extra 116 votes compared to last time. This breaks down to roughly 10 DUP, 65 of the ERG, 4 Independents (Field/Hermon /Hopkins/Austin) and 40 Labour.

The Labour MPs won't go for it unless the numbers look tight and the DUP are on board.

We should get a feel for how things are going as the day goes on. I expect more negative comments on it to be expressed as the day goes on.

We might yet see some amendments and curveball thrown into the mix too. However none of those tabled so far this morning look likely to pass (Labour are yet to table anything)

The Cabinet meets at 9.30am. This will give us an idea of how it's played out there.

At 11.15am Barclay faces the Brexit select committee so some more scrutiny there.

The crucial moment is early afternoon before as May opens the debate on the Meaningful Vote. It is expected there will be an Urgent Question tabled to Cox the Attorney General to assess whether his legal advice that the backstop could be a trap, has changed. This is where thing will come into focus and we will get a good idea of whether the deal will pass or how heavy the defeat will be. How heavy it is, is important.

Word is that Cox said no to the validity of May’s 'legally binding assurances' last night and has been pretty much been sent away to 'think about it with a team of lawyers'. Cox has replied this is "Bollocks". But you do have to wonder if this is what May did in the Home Office with her ridiculous court cases and the A50 case. None of which went well for her in court in the end. However Cox did tell The Mail yesterday he would only change his legal advice if the risk of being trapped was 'eliminated' not merely reduced.

If its going badly a No10 damage limitation exercise will be in full swing by about 4pm.

If The Withdrawal Agreement fails by a small amount May might be able to try again. If it fails by a lot we really are into political chaos. May's position might be untenable if the Cabinet withdraw their support. If May stays that's not necessarily going to stave off even greater crisis.

Theresa May looks likely to go for an extension until 23rd May. The EU have more or less agreed to this. But this might be too short to get an alternative plan on the table. And May would be unlikely to be the person to do this anyway as it requires a huge uturn. The 23rd May date is crucial - if the UK doesn't make contingency plans to take part in European Elections its a cliff edge. A deadline of 23rd May is also too short for another referendum.

The only way we get a 2nd ref is to take the option of a longer extension which requires us to take part in European elections, and this is politically unpalatable to many Tories as it endangers Brexit completely.

This is what ERGers need to weigh up. Are they really committed to no deal. If they are not then the WA is perhaps the only way to stop no deal AND the possibility of no brexit.

However the chances of the legislation for European elections and a long extension getting through the Commons looks extremely unlikely too. But who knows where we will be come the end of April.

Thus if the WA fails then the chances of No Deal sky rocket, even if no deal is blocked by Parliament tomorrow. Unless those same MPs are prepared to vote for EP elections further down the line if need be. This might be the only way to truly block no deal. Has this dawned on Tory moderates? And that's what remain moderates and Labour MPs need to weigh up. I don't think the penny has dropped with many. Yet.

The trouble is that the WA problem is really with hardline ERG Tories not moderates nor Labour anyway.

Voting starts at 7pm.

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Thread gallery
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tobee · 12/03/2019 19:21
Grin
Jsmith99 · 12/03/2019 19:21

Prediction: TM loses by >100.

God knows what happens next

frumpety · 12/03/2019 19:21

Bloody hell ! got to go to a meeting , got wine and gin ready for my return, think it might be needed.

RedToothBrush · 12/03/2019 19:22

Ayes 242 no 391

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RedToothBrush · 12/03/2019 19:22

Maj 149

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FiddleFaddleDingDong · 12/03/2019 19:22

Pretty emphatic

tobee · 12/03/2019 19:23

No surprise

OhYouBadBadKitten · 12/03/2019 19:23

woah.
and fuck.
now what.

HarveySchlumpfenburger · 12/03/2019 19:23

Given the state of her voice earlier, a long speech is a bit optimistic, isn’t it?

Hopefully someone’s bunged her some lemon and ginger and a pack of strepsils.

Butterymuffin · 12/03/2019 19:23

Defeated by 149

May speaking hoarsely now

BiglyBadgers · 12/03/2019 19:23

So ... Here we are again...

BigChocFrenzy · 12/03/2019 19:23

Well if she's reducing the votes against by 50 each time, just need another 3 attempts ...

RedToothBrush · 12/03/2019 19:23

Adam Fleming @adamfleming
There are no optimists in the EU27 now. None. Anywhere.

Peter Foster @pmdfoster
this

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saxatablesalt · 12/03/2019 19:23

Fucking hell this is just incredible

RedToothBrush · 12/03/2019 19:24

Free vote to block no deal.

No whip

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Butterymuffin · 12/03/2019 19:24

May says free vote on Tory side in tomorrow's vote

LonelyandTiredandLow · 12/03/2019 19:24

She's sounding more and more like Darth Vader...

BroomstickOfLove · 12/03/2019 19:25

So what happens now?

Cuddlysnowleopard · 12/03/2019 19:25

She sounds awful. Really unwell.

tobee · 12/03/2019 19:25

She is the Maybot after all

RedToothBrush · 12/03/2019 19:25

Christopher Hope@christopherhope
Theresa May confirms tomorrow's vote on leaving without will be a free vote. The PM is losing control of events. #Brexit

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Butterymuffin · 12/03/2019 19:25

Oh, she's back onto worrying about preserving the Union.. having made a speech to that effect in the summer of 2016, then done everything possible to undermine it Hmm

tobee · 12/03/2019 19:26

Want to slap her on the back. To help her cough it up Grin

Butterymuffin · 12/03/2019 19:26

'Let me be clear' DRINK!

Cuddlysnowleopard · 12/03/2019 19:26

RedToothBrush you're miles better than Radio 5!