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Brexit

Westminstenders: Are we nearly there yet?

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 12/03/2019 10:01

May went to Strasbourg to improve the WA. She claimed to have won 'legally binding' assurances which mean we can't be trapped in the backstop.

Despite the claim of 'legally binding' it seems that this isn't true. It reduces the risk of being trapped but does not eliminate it.

The whole thing is just political theatre designed to give Brexiteers the opportunity to climb down and support May's deal. Whether that will happen remains to seen.

The right wing press has largely been supportive of May this morning but the ERG were scathing last night which doesn't bode well.

For May to pass the deal she needs the DUP to effectively trigger dominoes of support. If she fails to get that it's highly unlikely it will pass.

In order to pass the deal May needs an extra 116 votes compared to last time. This breaks down to roughly 10 DUP, 65 of the ERG, 4 Independents (Field/Hermon /Hopkins/Austin) and 40 Labour.

The Labour MPs won't go for it unless the numbers look tight and the DUP are on board.

We should get a feel for how things are going as the day goes on. I expect more negative comments on it to be expressed as the day goes on.

We might yet see some amendments and curveball thrown into the mix too. However none of those tabled so far this morning look likely to pass (Labour are yet to table anything)

The Cabinet meets at 9.30am. This will give us an idea of how it's played out there.

At 11.15am Barclay faces the Brexit select committee so some more scrutiny there.

The crucial moment is early afternoon before as May opens the debate on the Meaningful Vote. It is expected there will be an Urgent Question tabled to Cox the Attorney General to assess whether his legal advice that the backstop could be a trap, has changed. This is where thing will come into focus and we will get a good idea of whether the deal will pass or how heavy the defeat will be. How heavy it is, is important.

Word is that Cox said no to the validity of May’s 'legally binding assurances' last night and has been pretty much been sent away to 'think about it with a team of lawyers'. Cox has replied this is "Bollocks". But you do have to wonder if this is what May did in the Home Office with her ridiculous court cases and the A50 case. None of which went well for her in court in the end. However Cox did tell The Mail yesterday he would only change his legal advice if the risk of being trapped was 'eliminated' not merely reduced.

If its going badly a No10 damage limitation exercise will be in full swing by about 4pm.

If The Withdrawal Agreement fails by a small amount May might be able to try again. If it fails by a lot we really are into political chaos. May's position might be untenable if the Cabinet withdraw their support. If May stays that's not necessarily going to stave off even greater crisis.

Theresa May looks likely to go for an extension until 23rd May. The EU have more or less agreed to this. But this might be too short to get an alternative plan on the table. And May would be unlikely to be the person to do this anyway as it requires a huge uturn. The 23rd May date is crucial - if the UK doesn't make contingency plans to take part in European Elections its a cliff edge. A deadline of 23rd May is also too short for another referendum.

The only way we get a 2nd ref is to take the option of a longer extension which requires us to take part in European elections, and this is politically unpalatable to many Tories as it endangers Brexit completely.

This is what ERGers need to weigh up. Are they really committed to no deal. If they are not then the WA is perhaps the only way to stop no deal AND the possibility of no brexit.

However the chances of the legislation for European elections and a long extension getting through the Commons looks extremely unlikely too. But who knows where we will be come the end of April.

Thus if the WA fails then the chances of No Deal sky rocket, even if no deal is blocked by Parliament tomorrow. Unless those same MPs are prepared to vote for EP elections further down the line if need be. This might be the only way to truly block no deal. Has this dawned on Tory moderates? And that's what remain moderates and Labour MPs need to weigh up. I don't think the penny has dropped with many. Yet.

The trouble is that the WA problem is really with hardline ERG Tories not moderates nor Labour anyway.

Voting starts at 7pm.

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RedToothBrush · 12/03/2019 19:26

Thursdays vote confirmed for extension vote.

Makes the point the point we need to make clear point of extension.

Big cheer for second ref.

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KennDodd · 12/03/2019 19:26

What now?

TatianaLarina · 12/03/2019 19:26

Yesss.

FiddleFaddleDingDong · 12/03/2019 19:26

I can't wait for the day when I never have to hear May say 'Let. Me. Be. Clear' ever again!

Sallyspoons · 12/03/2019 19:27

She needs a lemsip poor woman

Butterymuffin · 12/03/2019 19:27

Oh god, can't Corbyn let Starmer speak instead?

Whisky2014 · 12/03/2019 19:27

Oops I'll eat my words from the last thread then!

RedToothBrush · 12/03/2019 19:27

So Thursday vote might have lots of amendments detailing why and what type of extension...

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Whisky2014 · 12/03/2019 19:27

Feck off corbyn

LonelyandTiredandLow · 12/03/2019 19:28

Paraphrasing TM:
A motion on Thursday as to seeking an extension.

Then need to be sought from UK to sort legislation.

Neither solves problems we face. Choices: Revoke/2nd ref/leave with a deal not this deal.

1tisILeClerc · 12/03/2019 19:28

Snowy111
Thanks, I have lived in the UK for 59 of the last 60 years, I am quite aware!

Whisky2014 · 12/03/2019 19:28

Surely the vote tomorrow everyone will say they want no deal off the table though, Yeh?

TatianaLarina · 12/03/2019 19:29

Some kind of short extension. Will she go this week or cling on for another couple of months...

RedToothBrush · 12/03/2019 19:29

Note EP elections definitely on the table.

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tobee · 12/03/2019 19:29

So hard to concentrate on what she said with that throat 🐴 🐸

LonelyandTiredandLow · 12/03/2019 19:29

*Sought from EU not UK

Corbyn still suggesting No Deal can be taken off table but reminds it is on her deal we can't agree. Talks about re negotiation - too late. JC wants a GE.

jasjas1973 · 12/03/2019 19:30

Good :) May is an awful and v stupid PM, stating she has got the legally binding changes Parliament wanted, without first consulting her AG, who then contradicted her, making May look like the idiot she is.

More hopeful than ever Brexit will be postponed via either a 2nd PV or unlikely a revoke but still a long way to go.

Peregrina · 12/03/2019 19:31

Just happened to log on before I went out, to see the vote had taken place and the result was just about to be announced.

Hmm, what to make of it all? I can't help thinking that May is now being held hostage by her own words "No deal is better than a bad deal." Well, she came back with a bad deal, so what does she expect?

Jsmith99 · 12/03/2019 19:31

Total humiliation for May. At any other time since the War, a PM without a majority whose flagship policy had been so heavily defeated would be going to the Palace tomorrow.

What a complete & utter fiasco.

BambooBoobam · 12/03/2019 19:31

He can fuck off with his GE. We don’t need that now as a country.

NoWordForFluffy · 12/03/2019 19:31

Corbyn was so stuttery I've no idea what he really said.

saxatablesalt · 12/03/2019 19:32

Oh ffs JC how is a fucking GE going to help.

Sostenueto · 12/03/2019 19:32

Well what can I say? What if they keep no deal on table?.......

RedToothBrush · 12/03/2019 19:32

Going for fish and chips...

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Peregrina · 12/03/2019 19:32

a PM without a majority whose flagship policy had been so heavily defeated would be going to the Palace tomorrow.

Yes, but which of those brave warriors in the ERG wants to step up right now?

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