The Magic Brexit Money Tree

[MillytantForceit]

...Children! Lollipops! Lollipops if you vote for my deal!

Indeed Prettybird it's so easy to destroy relationships, trust, influence, cooperation and knowledge exchange in one fell swoop, all of which have taken years of effort to initiage and grow.

initiate

Peaceful shared cooperation between reasonably like-minded states who follow roughly the same liberal, peaceful values, is not something one should underestimate or reject unthinkingly for unclear notions concerning sovereignty. One has to offer up a little bit of sovereignty in order to be a member of any club or follow any set of rules; the WTO included!

This is the ironic thing about it all.

All of the things the leavers complain about will be magnified with trade deals with other countries.

We will be dictated to by the US, and the ISDS court will be heavily in their favour.

But they probably knew what they were voting for.

You are wrong Belli, I do not have to come up with a solution so, if I were you I would not bother trying to time me.

Of course no judges should sit on the ECJ. Why on earth should they?
And all that stuff about no planes and no ECHR etc...what a load of drivel! 😂😂😂

Well you do need to come up with a solution @Coppersulphate . Or one of your Leave pals does. Because we crash out with out one . Or even worse from your perspective, we don't Brexit.

Obviously it's a load of drivel - but if you really don't want to have to be subject to the jurisdiction of supra-national courts, then that is the logical and only conclusion to achieve what you want

Unless of course you think that the British Empire should be re-instated and the UK can then dictate the law to other colonies countries

Well it wouldn't be much of a court without judges Coppersulphate but assuming you mean British judges, I was pointing out that we had a sphere of influence there, which we will no longer have.

As to "why should they?"

• The UK government have actually been arguing that we should still have representation on the ECJ post Brexit as it will be ruling on disputes related to EU nationals in the UK. I would have thought that as a Leaver, you would have wanted the UK to have representation on those matters!

The ECJ deals with complex matters on trade and EU law, if not judges, who?

Judges sit on the ECHR, 47 countries are signatories, they have overturned decisions made in UK courts also deportation decisions made by UK Govt.

By your own argument you wish to leave the ECHR too

More info here Coppersulphate

By my own stated argument I do not want to leave the ECHR. I have never suggested we should.
And of course I mean British judges.
Nor have I said I would like us to withdraw from other international courts. I have been very clear, so I can only assume that you lot either cannot read or cannot understand.
I want us to leave the jurisdiction of the ECJ. Is that clear?
Non of the friends I have who voted leave (all of them) have to make any plans for the NI border. That is not our responsibility at all.

Jasjas, please show me my argument that says I want to leave the ECHR.

Pretty...where did I say that I do not want the UK to be under the jurisdiction of supra national courts?

LISTEN...I SAID THE ECJ.
And I said the ECJ because I mean the ECJ

So the ECJ is baaaaad because it is, well, the only reason seems to be, European but other supranational courts are ok.

I seeeee

Theresa May does want to leave the ECHR. It might be that she's mixed it up, not being a student of history. It predates the European Coal and Steel Organisation/EEC/EU and was set up, partly at the instigation of British judges for the very valid reason of trying to avoid the appalling horrors of Nazism. But do the right wing Tories really care about that?

NI border.
That is not our responsibility at all.
Then
Whose
Exactly
Is
It?

You voted Leave. You voted for a pig in a poke. Responsibility for the NI border comes with the pig in a poke. Just learn to own your all Leave vote, not just cherry pick a few bits. It's not Remainers responsibility. We would revoke A50 and the problem is solved.

No Coppersulphate tbh it isn't at all clear why you want us to leave the ECJ. That's the issue I think.

{NI border.
That is not our responsibility at all.}
Obviously a vast over simplification but Britain established the border in the first place. Therefore Britain's responsibility to sort it out.

please show me my argument that says I want to leave the ECHR

Copper said "I am still unhappy about the authority of the ECJ, just as I would be about a US court if it had jurisdiction over the UK"

ECHR has jurisdiction over the UK judicial system...... which you want to leave, so you'll want to leave ECHR as well? but apparently you don't....... though i suspect you secretly do but can't admit it now you've dug your hole lol!

As i said earlier, Leaver arguments are built on sand, they do not stand up to logic or strutiny.

Yes, I agree it is the UK's responsibility to sort the NI border. Not mine directly. OK so we have agreed on that.
Maybe TM does want to leave the ECHR. So be it. All I can say is that I do not.

I have said many times why I want to leave the ECJ. It can over rule our own judicial system on matters which I consider to be best dealt with by our laws and our courts. It is a way of imposing EU laws on the UK. Is that clear enough.

And before you say it, yes I know the ECHR can do the same but only on issues of human rights (clue is in the title)

For disputes between states, whether trade related or otherwise, I have no problem with international courts.

Not mine directly. OK so we have agreed on that.

No we don't agree. At the very least you should be badgering your MP, or Theresa May to say exactly what it is you would like to see. Not cop out as people like Rees-Mogg do and carp from the sidelines, but refuse to give a definitive answer.

The Uk/Ireland border is absolutely at the heart of this lack of progress. It is the only reason we are stuck.
While it is not your personal responsibility to find a solution @Coppersulphate , you and all the other Leavers should take responsibility for fixing it. Lobby your MP; learn about why none of the proposed technological solutions work so far. If this fails it is on every single Leave voter. Of which you appear to be one.

Human Rights covers a huge area of UK law; Employment, Health, Education, Immigration, our justice system.... even family life!

The ECJ on the other hand is only interested in interpretation EU law, which we've signed up too and helped create, almost all cases are those referred to to the ECJ by UK courts.

TBF the ECHR has a far greater impact on UK courts.

No, I take absolutely no responsibility for fixing any border any more than I do for fixing the NHS, social care, education or any other major issue that the country faces.

Posted too soon. My responsibility is to pay my taxes, vote, remain within the law and do my best to be a good citizen. All of which I do.

Bellini, I do not intend to lobby anybody.
And I am under no obligation to take any notice of you.