Westminstenders: Stuck in the Middle With TIGGERS

[RedToothBrush]

Well I don't know how we got here tonight.
We've got the feeling that something ain't right.
We're so scared as we leave the EU
And we're wondering how we'll get out of this stew

Antisemites to the left of me!
Dog Whistles to the right!
Here I am stuck in the middle whilst we leave the EU.

'Cause I'm stuck in the middle whilst we leave the EU.
And I'm wondering what it is we should do.
It's so hard to keep this smile from my face.
Losing control and running all over the place.

Clowns to the left of me!
Jokers to the right!
Here I am stuck in the middle whilst we leave the EU.

When you started off with rights
And you're starting to wonder if thats for life.
And all the politicians come crawling
Slap you on the back and say
Please . . .
Please . . .
Vote Leave and back EU Withdrawal

But we see it makes no sense at all.

Best to keep your money offshore
Than to visit the bookstore

Deniers to the left of me!
Islamaphobes to the right!
Here I am stuck in the middle with you.

Its finally happened. FINALLY.

MPs have seen that their leaders have lost the plot and are hell bent on destruction and politicial ideology ahead of practicality and will justify the unjustifable in the face of democracy and they have jumped ship.

Enter stage left and stage right: The TIGGERS - members of The Independent Group.

Will there be more. Hard to say no. It seems almost certain there will be more.

Will it make a difference? Difficult to call, but these MPs would be driven out sooner or later. Such is our accelerating politicial polarisation and narrowing of views. This is their last stand. They have nothing left to lose on a personal level.

Whether you agree with the TIGGERS or still look to the other parties for policy, I do think that the emergence of the TIGGERS marks a feeling of optimism and much needed hope for many many Remainers / Moderates, even if it ultimately does fizzle out.

A reflection from 2017: People voted for Corbyn because they were looking for Hope. When he's failed to deliver that, its led to disillusionment and he can not pull the same trick again at a future GE. This makes that doubly so. People are STILL very much looking for that hope. If Brexit does go tits up in a big fashion, then what happens? To what direction do people look? I'm sure there will be the bitterest of recriminations, but... hope is a big deal. We need something...

Tick tick tick. 37 days til Brexit.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/3492426-Westministenders-Abbreviation

I saw a tweet quoted earlier on the thread that said lots of people are making a 1p donation to the Brexit party as that will actually cost them money. I wonder if they count as sign ups?

Ah, I heard of the fake signups, but I may have completely underestimated their magnitude

Oops, cross posted with Misti!

I've just finished watching Blackout...I've realised I watched it when it was originally broadcast but it does take on quite a different feeling with no deal looming.

It just brings to the forefront of your mind how thin the veneer of civility is

I think DD signed up a few 'people' to the Brexit party of the Minnie Mouse, Donald Duck variety.

Sooooo TM now talking to remainers in her party finally to convince them not to resign cos sod the country we must not let Corbyn in at any cost including the wrecking of the UK. Party first, party first, party first. Wonder what she offered them to remain in party and vote for her poxy deal? Pfffft!

The Brexit Party were trolled to high heaven by fake accounts. I wouldn't worry too much about the 100k figure.

Torygraph.
100 Tory MPs ready to force Brexit delay if May's deal fails.

Theresa May has been warned by a group of 100 moderate Tory MPs that they are prepared to rebel against her to delay Brexit if she cannot reach a deal.

The Brexit Delivery Group, which represents Remain and Leave supporting MPs, called for a free vote next week on a move to block no deal.

Simon Hart and Andrew Percy, the leaders of the bloc [RTB: Nope I've never heard of them either] said in a letter leaked to the Telegraph that "numerous" members of the group had become "deeply troubled" by the prospect of a no-deal Brexit

The letter to Julian Smith, the Chief Whip, said; "The reputation for competence of both the party and government depends on our ability to deliver an orderly exit, in line with the existing timescale. Whilst we fully expect some changes to the backstop arrangements to be made by ministers in Brussels this week, there remains a chance these will not satisfy some colleagues.

"Numerous members of our group have alerted us to their intention (should rejection of the deal look likely) to get behind amendments that are planned in the name of Oliver Letwin and others [RTB I think this is Cooper-Boles] and which will have the twin effect of taking no-deal off the table and delaying Brexit".

The article continues but thats the important bit.

The Guardian is adding to the story saying that

At least four cabinet ministers, almost a dozen junior ministers and many others on the government payroll are understood to be prepared to back the motion proposed by Tory MP Sir Oliver Letwin and Labours Yvette Cooper, due to be debated on Wednesday. A senior source close to those plotting rebellion said there was no way they would resign voluntarily, so May would have to sack them.

The move comes with moderates emboldened by the formation of the Independent Group, which some see as providing leverage to resist the influence of the European Research Group (ERG).

wheresmymojo yep I watched it last night for the first time. When you think about it that veneer of civilised is very thin indeed nowadays. I see it in the countless road rage incidents I encounter lately. At Xmas time when shops were crammed with people queuing for checkouts who would not move out of the way and swore at me even when asked politely with a please and thankyou as I couldn't get by with 2 walking sticks to actually get down the aisles to do my shopping. I see it with the way people park not caring that they damage a 2 day old new car as they bang their doors on your car and give you a mouthful if you dare to pull them up about it and have to call the police while 5 burly men surround you and threaten you. My dd gets it when cycling to and from work, ( she cycles roughly 18-20 miles a day and she's a big lady not a size 6 but an 18) men shouting obscenities at her about how she's committing cruelty to a bike etc. How dcs in shops don't know how to say please and thankyou. I could go on with the list! Yes, the veneer of civilisation wears thinner each day.

I really hope that all this sees off the ERG.

The media are loving brexit. Nothing like whipping up hate, giving false hope and false information. Destroying peoples careers and lives with their accusations and sensationalism. Trying to dictate what you and I must surely think/believe all for their own ends.

I don't think I could survive an extension to A50.

Haven't watched QT for ages as it induces too much rage but decided I would tonight to see how Anna Soubry got on. For whatever reason it's Chris Leslie instead. Poor bloke. The audience haven't changed

TM dare not sack them! She can't afford to sack rebels. She must not let JC in, her party must survive. The country is a poor second to her glorious party.

Peregina, it would see off the ERG one way or another, I feel.

The 100 moderate Tories backing an extension, would - with Labour - make a clear majority.

If you then did get no deal by default of accident, it would almost certainly rupture the Conservative Party completely.

It doesn't get us to a deal, but faced with an extension the ERG would find it hard to refuse a deal. Any deal. Or otherwise they really would risk Brexit completely.

Its promising. Yes none of us want an extension and for this to drag on longer, but realistically the idea of leaving on the 31st March, with or without a deal is now ridiculous as the legislation to do it, can't be done in time.

• not 31st March. 29th.

Its after 11pm.

But will EU grant extension?

The EU might not want to but I do think they will. Purely because they need more time to prepare themselves and its diplomatically preferable to no deal from a domestic point of view.

Nicholas Watt @nicholaswatt
Blog: lonely PM reaches out after Tory defections. Phillip Lee has not spoken to PM since he resigned as a minister. Then in space of 24 hours texts from party chairman, chief whip + 45 min meeting with PM

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47326391

She didn't speak to Phillip Lee since he resigned as a minister and Justine Greening complained that she had repeatedly tried to get a meeting with the PM but had not been granted an audience...

...until the three amigos left.

I get the impression from all the cautious pronouncements that they are waiting to be asked. Britain is being treated as temporarily insane - with kid gloves and at a distance. I think they are hoping for a PV or GE to offer clarity.

I get the impression from all the cautious pronouncements that they are waiting to be asked.

Yep pretty much. To which they have already answered the question that yes they were highly likely to agree.

As its been pointed out, no deal is likely to produce an economic shock which could trigger a recession. This isn't good for any of the EU27. So if they think an extension will stop that or at least soften it, then its a realistic thing to sell to their own annoyed citizens who can't wait to get rid of us.

James Melville @ jamesmelville
^Best ever answer on Question Time goes to John Barnes. This is what we need in politics. Honesty. Politics from the heart.
#bbcqt^

I think I used the word 'passion' yesterday.

But yes. This.

John Barnes was fab tonight. Wise man.

My 10 year old tonight "why do we need to leave the EU?"
Me: "we don't"
DD "why did god create stupid people?"

red The EU are very keen on an extension to avoid No Deal, but very worried that neither May nor her officials have even sounded out their opinions on this

They would have no problem selling an extension to its citizens if if were for a PV

Even a short extension until 1 June, without any real reason being cited, would be met with a collective public eye-roll that the Brits still can't make their minds up, but general acceptance

Additionally, the EU would want to show that it is giving the UK every chance to decide on an orderly Brexit