Westminstenders: Stuck in the Middle With TIGGERS

[RedToothBrush]

Well I don't know how we got here tonight.
We've got the feeling that something ain't right.
We're so scared as we leave the EU
And we're wondering how we'll get out of this stew

Antisemites to the left of me!
Dog Whistles to the right!
Here I am stuck in the middle whilst we leave the EU.

'Cause I'm stuck in the middle whilst we leave the EU.
And I'm wondering what it is we should do.
It's so hard to keep this smile from my face.
Losing control and running all over the place.

Clowns to the left of me!
Jokers to the right!
Here I am stuck in the middle whilst we leave the EU.

When you started off with rights
And you're starting to wonder if thats for life.
And all the politicians come crawling
Slap you on the back and say
Please . . .
Please . . .
Vote Leave and back EU Withdrawal

But we see it makes no sense at all.

Best to keep your money offshore
Than to visit the bookstore

Deniers to the left of me!
Islamaphobes to the right!
Here I am stuck in the middle with you.

Its finally happened. FINALLY.

MPs have seen that their leaders have lost the plot and are hell bent on destruction and politicial ideology ahead of practicality and will justify the unjustifable in the face of democracy and they have jumped ship.

Enter stage left and stage right: The TIGGERS - members of The Independent Group.

Will there be more. Hard to say no. It seems almost certain there will be more.

Will it make a difference? Difficult to call, but these MPs would be driven out sooner or later. Such is our accelerating politicial polarisation and narrowing of views. This is their last stand. They have nothing left to lose on a personal level.

Whether you agree with the TIGGERS or still look to the other parties for policy, I do think that the emergence of the TIGGERS marks a feeling of optimism and much needed hope for many many Remainers / Moderates, even if it ultimately does fizzle out.

A reflection from 2017: People voted for Corbyn because they were looking for Hope. When he's failed to deliver that, its led to disillusionment and he can not pull the same trick again at a future GE. This makes that doubly so. People are STILL very much looking for that hope. If Brexit does go tits up in a big fashion, then what happens? To what direction do people look? I'm sure there will be the bitterest of recriminations, but... hope is a big deal. We need something...

Tick tick tick. 37 days til Brexit.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/3492426-Westministenders-Abbreviation

Sebastian Payne @SebastianEPayne
The mood on the Tory benches today is one of sadness mixed with frustration. MPs feel that the Conservative parliamentary party had worked hard to be accommodating to Brexit views of Soubry, Allen and Wollaston. Now they can’t attack Labour for being divided.

There’s also a strong feeling that the three MPs could be welcomed back in the future. Iain Duncan Smith has written on the Tory MPs WhatsApp group that the door should be left open for Soubry, Allen and Wollaston to return - lots of others have sent messages agreeing.

IDS wrote to Tory MPs: “I believe that the door should be left open for them to return. We all want a deal and a number of us are working on a compromise to do that. The Conservative party is a broad church which is tolerant and decent…"

The Leakest WhatsApp Group learns from Labour bad handling of the seven leaving - knowing this will be leaked, or genuine self reflection?

Hmmm...

They now have 124k followers on twitter. In three days.

Thats a lot of bots they have spent months creating for this moment. Explains why its taken them so long to make their move.

The mood on the Tory benches today is one of sadness mixed with frustration. MPs feel that the Conservative parliamentary party had worked hard to be accommodating to Brexit views of Soubry, Allen and Wollaston.

The fact the 3 left suggests that maybe, just maybe, the Conservative Party didn't work hard enough ? That is to say the moderate non-ERG wing was quite happy to sit on their hands.

My MP has followed them , the tiggers on Twitter and he is all in for Brexit. Not everyone following them will be supporting them.

No good emailing our MP either .She's part of the ERG.

My MP has followed them , the tiggers on Twitter and he is all in for Brexit. Not everyone following them will be supporting them.

By the same token, not everyone not following them isn't not supporting them. Important to bear in mind when considering the demographics of the electorate, maybe ? Incredible as it seems, not everyone is on - or wants to be on - Twitter, Facebook, etc etc. And to be honest, my interaction via such media has plummeted since the new year - and I don't feel I've missed out.

No of course they aren't all supporting them. I follow lots of people I disagree with.

BUT

They are generating interest and concern.

This is important in its own right. They need to get those column inches are get more media attention than 11 MPs normally would.

Its how you start to reclaim and control the agenda.

(Ask Nig).

From the end of the last thread: re the Nazi collaborators being put in power in Greece by Britain rather than the "communist" resistance and resulting in a brutal civil war

When my parents starting visiting Greece in the mid 70s (Ionian Islands, so suffered particularly badly), they would get unfriendly reactions initially as the locals thought first that they were German (dad is tall and blond) and then English (because that's the language they spoke).

Once they said that they were Scottish, not English, interactions were visibly friendlier.

Fishy smelly aristocratic door mat

I've been telling my dh - who is now throwing his previously reluctant self into the Brexit prep idea more than I am (!) - that the HoC will not let No Deal happen. There are too many grown ups.
I think the Tiggers are more grown up than most but I fear that this will marginalise common sense. And showing you aren't a Tigger will be another driver towards insanity that people previously wouldn't have listened to. Does that make sense?

PMK, thanks. Interesting times.

No good emailing our MP either .She's part of the ERG

I'd suggest it's worth it all the same. It won't change their mind. But it will mean they'll either have to believe it's a Corbyn conspiracy (no one said they're particularly bright) or admit that there are people that disagree with them. My moneys on the conspiracy theory.

It also increases the noise they have to filter out to listen to their own side ....

From the end of the last thread: re the Nazi collaborators being put in power in Greece by Britain rather than the "communist" resistance and resulting in a brutal civil war

Different outcome, but the anti-communist credentials of the Mafia meant it got US government and Catholic church support in Sicily. With depressingly predictable consequences

I think they should stay as a loose coalition of independents. Apart from brexit they really are quite different and I think if they start trying to party up they will run the risk of quickly descending into the kind of bickering and politics they are trying to distance themselves from.

If they really want a new type of politics than I say really go for it. Be a unified force when there are things they all agree on, but allow for each to go their own way when they feel strongly on a particular issue. That way there doesn't have to be a single leader but different voices can lead depending on the issue discussed. Wouldn't it be lovely to see a group acting in a truly cooperative and inclusive fashion?

Of course this will be a real challenge to the way the house of commons is set up and the rules and governance structures, but as a coalition they could work as a group to push for change in these areas that would allow independents to have better representation in the future.

Personally I liked piglet.......

PMK, thank you Red indeed interesting times, yy speeches from the three amigos were really very good.

Hum tiddly pum.

IIRC Chukka withdrew from Labour leadership contest without a good explanation and it is widely rumoured that this was because the media had got hold of some dirt on him which would have otherwise come out.
So seems unlikely he will become Head Tigger?

Would be totally behind a merger/collaboration of TIG and LDs

Not for me either, but an informal sort of Confidence and Supply agreement could work well.

I hope some more Tories jump ship. I also hope that if May decides she will hold an election to get herself out of the hole she's in that they vote No to it, and force her to clear up her own mess.

I think the Tiggers are more grown up than most but I fear that this will marginalise common sense. And showing you aren't a Tigger will be another driver towards insanity that people previously wouldn't have listened to. Does that make sense?

My counter argument was this process was already happening anyway, within parties.

This at least gives a proper platform for 'sensibles' rather than being lost in either the Tories or Labour.

It might speed up the process, but it at least makes a stand rather than fizzling out without anyone noticing.

MPs feel that the Conservative parliamentary party had worked hard to be accommodating to Brexit views of Soubry, Allen and Wollaston.

I can't say I have seen this, it's been "what do the ERG want?" all the way!

I think they’ve already called for disgruntled LDs to join them so no plans to merge at the moment.
I have emailed flagging up the LD’s toxicity on several things, including their disgraceful stance on women’s rights so hope they’ll be wary.

MPs feel that the Conservative parliamentary party had worked hard to be accommodating to Brexit views of Soubry, Allen and Wollaston.

Really? They really feel this? Crikey.

MPs feel that the Conservative parliamentary party had worked hard to be accommodating to Brexit views of Soubry, Allen and Wollaston.

Really? They really feel this? Crikey.

"Being in touch" is not an offence many MPs could be convicted of.

I get lost on the long threads, but please why the TIGGERS - why that name I mean, and where can I find them on twitter please? I like that they are independent but feel that with the FPTP system they need to form a party to be in with a chance to win an election?

What an excellent resignation letter the three have written.

I'm cautiously optimistic about the Tiggers.

I say cautiously, because I was optimistic about Corbyn too...and look how that turned out

But I am oddly heartened by the news of Soubry, Allen and Wollaston, who have always seemed pretty good eggs even to me as a lifelong Labour voter. Funnily enough, I'm not half so taken with the Red Tiggers as I am with the Blue.

But I think, on balance, this is a Good Thing for politics...just hope it's not too little too late. Tick tock tick tock, indeed.