Westminstenders: Stuck in the Middle With TIGGERS

[RedToothBrush]

Well I don't know how we got here tonight.
We've got the feeling that something ain't right.
We're so scared as we leave the EU
And we're wondering how we'll get out of this stew

Antisemites to the left of me!
Dog Whistles to the right!
Here I am stuck in the middle whilst we leave the EU.

'Cause I'm stuck in the middle whilst we leave the EU.
And I'm wondering what it is we should do.
It's so hard to keep this smile from my face.
Losing control and running all over the place.

Clowns to the left of me!
Jokers to the right!
Here I am stuck in the middle whilst we leave the EU.

When you started off with rights
And you're starting to wonder if thats for life.
And all the politicians come crawling
Slap you on the back and say
Please . . .
Please . . .
Vote Leave and back EU Withdrawal

But we see it makes no sense at all.

Best to keep your money offshore
Than to visit the bookstore

Deniers to the left of me!
Islamaphobes to the right!
Here I am stuck in the middle with you.

Its finally happened. FINALLY.

MPs have seen that their leaders have lost the plot and are hell bent on destruction and politicial ideology ahead of practicality and will justify the unjustifable in the face of democracy and they have jumped ship.

Enter stage left and stage right: The TIGGERS - members of The Independent Group.

Will there be more. Hard to say no. It seems almost certain there will be more.

Will it make a difference? Difficult to call, but these MPs would be driven out sooner or later. Such is our accelerating politicial polarisation and narrowing of views. This is their last stand. They have nothing left to lose on a personal level.

Whether you agree with the TIGGERS or still look to the other parties for policy, I do think that the emergence of the TIGGERS marks a feeling of optimism and much needed hope for many many Remainers / Moderates, even if it ultimately does fizzle out.

A reflection from 2017: People voted for Corbyn because they were looking for Hope. When he's failed to deliver that, its led to disillusionment and he can not pull the same trick again at a future GE. This makes that doubly so. People are STILL very much looking for that hope. If Brexit does go tits up in a big fashion, then what happens? To what direction do people look? I'm sure there will be the bitterest of recriminations, but... hope is a big deal. We need something...

Tick tick tick. 37 days til Brexit.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/3492426-Westministenders-Abbreviation

Different stance. Had a child extremely premature with very low birth weight. These children... ignoring the high toxicity of some of the drugs and procedures they have to have to survive have their immunisations at their actual age. So think 3 months early have the jabs at 1,2 months actual etc. Tiny babies. I had zero issue with that. And herd immunity is so important to those with a compromised immune system too.

Please don't turn this into a vaccination thread. Please.

I'm happy to leave the vaccination issue now - it makes me very cross anyway. I take the point that it isn't really on topic.

I like the graphic from a couple of posts back.

Don't want to. Just giving a different view

Anyho. Will Grieve turn? I looked up the leaver stats in his constituency..I know that one very well. And it was a very close leave. The area that voted to leave and pushed it over is a more rural area and 'not quite south bucks' if you have ever been there you would know what I mean

twitter.com/i/status/1098537821240000512

One thing about the MMR scare and parallels with Brexit are that ramifications can take a really long time to appear

For example, there is currently a potential mumps epidemic starting at the University of Arkansas - here's hoping it doesn't turn into the recurring mumps problem suffered at Harvard in recent years.

NoCryingInEngineering

Thanks for that information ( that's a great name by the way ).

I would imagine the list of what sector gets prioritized in terms of transport might be medicine first, water treatment second, food third.

Clothing, furniture, shoes, etc can wait a short while until things get sorted out.

It's been circulating that vaccination as a subject is the latest top one for the Russian bots to undermine Western society.

Whether this is true or not, someone thinks its an important subject and one where cracks in society can we wedged open further.

So whilst I don't want this thread become a vaccination thread, it is a culture war subject and thus relevant to Brexit. (God isn't everything atm!!)

I do think it's important we do discuss critical thought processes and how we analyse information, process it, quality assess it and come to decisions from that information. Some people are more skilled and better equipped to do this than others. How you go about aiding people make truly informed (and by that I mean good critical analysis) decisions, rather than ones based more on emotions like fear, unconscious bias, prejudice etc is really healthy.

Can you identify the degree to which emotions are being used to manipulate you?

Vaccination, like the Begum story, like transgender issues, anything that involves child well being all provoke emotion in people - that's what makes them 'wedge issues' that can be put into the cracks in society and to polarise people.

They all are one's which try and simply issues to the raw emotion rather than try and look at the subject in a far drier and detached fashion.

I think once you start to see things being used to manipulate opinion and make you 'pick a side' it's easier to step back from that and think about the subject in a more constructive and genuinely helpful manner.

Social media lends itself to this in a way that the tradional media never did in quite the same way previously. And now mainstream media tries to follow the trend that social has led by becoming more polarised and emotive than it precisely was.

I don't know.

I am just very conscious of what are hot issues and why. And how they are being reported / presented which is much more along the lines of feelings rather than more substantive deeper level examination of the subject.

bellini - I posted before I saw your plea not to turn this into a vaccinations thread (I wasn't ignoring you!)

I've been away all day. Anything of interest happened?

So whilst I don't want this thread become a vaccination thread, it is a culture war subject and thus relevant to Brexit. (God isn't everything atm!!)

Here in France if you drew a Venn diagram of gilets jaune sympathisers and anti-vaxers there would be almost a 100% overlap (not all GJs are anti vax but pretty much all anti-vaxers will be GJ sympathisers).

"Nothing's changed. Nothing's changed! "

To quote one of the main protagonists

That's interesting red

Just back from trustees meeting. No plans for chaotic no deal Brexit.

So pretty much like the govt atm.

plus ça change then.

Nothing's changed...May and Corbyn are still gaslighting us all as per usual.

Useful pointer to who may next jump ship from the Tories:
the list of MPs that leave.eu are trying to get deselected

Note how often the hard right referred to "Remoaners" and "traitors", which would make dissident MPs feel very threatened


Anna Soubry MP@Anna_Soubry

Yesterday I referred to #PurpleMomentum #BluKip the #LeaveEU campaign of entryism @Conservatives
Here’s the evidence - which the party has refused to act on. Democracy under threat & they meekly stand by. Time for #ChangePolitics
@TheIndGroup

Glad it isn't just me that sees the overlap.
I'd hazard a guess abortion rights, Muslims/immigrants/Jews, welfare "scroungers", war hero's/poppy campaign and wanting to kill any man who dates their daughter are all memes/ideologies commonly posted by people who are particularly susceptible. All of those are "important" topics to my leaver acquaintances. All are based on emotional response and seem to evoke pure rage that stymies any actual discussion.

oh and Hammond is a target too:

Ooh and I just remembered a relevant paper - people are more likely to pass on memes with a higher level of disgust (so we could jump a bit and presume it likely any high emotion meme is more likely to carry weight and be shared more) Heath; 2001 Emotional Selection in Memes

@red Do you know if the Mirror figure is anywhere near correct ?
(the Sun also states this figure)

100k members is about the entire Tory party membership
In just one week ??

Nigel Farage's Brexit Party signs up 100,000 members within a week of launching

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/nigel-farages-brexit-party-signs-14010517.amp?twitterr_impression=true

If they count as members, those that have contributed £0.01, so that the party has the cost of administering and sending letter of thanks at a loss (as per a tweeted suggestion that was posted earlier on this or the previous thread), then that figure may be accurate but not representative

The 100k figure are those that have expressed a wish to join, not paid £xx up front, once people realise they have to pay £25 plus the numbers will be more realistic.
Unless they go for £2 fee and then we can all join & vote in a new leader lol!

The Brexit Party hasn't officially launched yet.

100k members is about the entire Tory party membership
In just one week ??*

That'll be the number who signed up on the website, of which I reckon 90% will be made-up names by twitter users who had a jolly good time signing up multiple times, after someone discovered that the website was so poorly designed that it didn't even verify email addresses.

Phew !
Thanks, folks

@Otto_English on Twitter was behind the fake sign-ups for the Brexit party, and judging from the threads on this, a hundreds of anti-Brexit folks each signed up dozens of times. Now they're busy sending £0.01 donations.