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Brexit

Westminstenders: Oh Look is that a fire in the Italian Capital?

994 replies

RedToothBrush · 14/02/2019 21:20

Next stop: 27th Feb.

Where we will apparently have Cooper-Boles II which apparently will pass but still assumes that
a) the EU will grant us an extension despite our fuckwittery
b) that it will prevent accidental no deal, which it doesn't
c) glosses over the minor point that the only way to 100% prevent no deal is to say you'll revoke if everything else fails

Meanwhile in reality we leave in law on 29th March, despite the rest of the law having zero chance of being ready in time. Withdrawal Agreement and No Deal alike.

All that is actually happening is the Tories and Labour fighting amongst themselves. Corbyn is still pretending that Brexit isn't really that important and hoping it will just go away. May is still trying to compromise with the ERG - whom if you paying attention 18 months ago were obviously were never going to compromise on anything - cos they are fuckwitted swivel eyed loons.

Meanwhile the entire country has no other alternative but to assume no deal and act accordingly.

A deal on the 21st March (as is the planned date of the Meaningful Vote) is simply too late for planners. For them no deal has already happened even if it does never come to pass.

The strategy of brinkmanship has destroyed us. We just don't know it yet.

A Split in the Tory and Labour parties may well make matters even worse going forward with further political polarisation.

Where next for Brexit?

Who knows and does it even matter now? The damage is irreversible and will take at least a generation to heal wounds. Economically it may never be recoverable.

FUKD.

OP posts:
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1tisILeClerc · 16/02/2019 20:48

{ If the WA is voted down on 27/2 then May will be forced into other options}
As said previously, there are NO other options apart from No deal, WA or revoke.
The UK does not have any other options at all. The only thing it can do is find some inventive way to pick just one of the 3 choices. Whether it is a duel fought by Mrs May against Mogg, pistols at dawn or best out of 100 at a pub quiz, the EU don't care and just want the UK Prime Minister to hand in a letter on 29 March saying which of the 3 options they want. A PV, dancing in the rain or whatever are immaterial now.

SparklySneakers · 16/02/2019 20:53

If there are no other options then what are all these talks and visits for? Seem a waste of time and money to me.

InterchangeableEmma · 16/02/2019 20:56

That's exactly what it is, Sparkly. It's just theatre.

There was this the other day www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/feb/13/kicking-up-dust-little-sign-of-progress-in-uk-eu-talks?CMP=twt_gu

HazardGhost · 16/02/2019 20:58

67 about fucking time! We've been nagging you for AGES. WinkFlowers

prettybird · 16/02/2019 20:58

....trying to get it through the UK's thick skull that there. Are. No. More. options? Confused

Working out a form of wording that might be acceptable to the reasonable MPs? I know, I know Wink

....trying to get it through the UK's thick skull that there. Are. No. More. options? Confused

Making it clear that the EU is now preparing for No Deal? Sad

....trying to get it through the UK's thick skull that there. Are. No. More. options? Confused

Making it crystal clear that the EU is not going to blink? Shock

....trying to get it through the UK's thick skull that there. Are. No. More. options? Confused

1tisILeClerc · 16/02/2019 21:03

{If there are no other options then what are all these talks and visits for? Seem a waste of time and money to me.}
They are largely a waste of time and money, Mrs May is running down the clock while trying to appear 'productive'.
Of course talking bollocks and vague hints of things for UK consumption are just part of the 'process'. The WA was signed off by Mrs May and the EU27 in November, it will not be reopened. Mr Barnier and team have said they will provide 'clarifications' but will not change the legal meanings of the 585 page document.
The legal position agreed with the EU27, instigated by Mrs May is that the UK is leaving on 29 March at 11pm UK time. Game over.

Mistigri · 16/02/2019 21:03

Right or wrong, they are making an impact of sorts.

Impact being a well chosen word. Was out for dinner with DD near Montparnasse this evening (left bank Paris ie south of the river and away from the worst of the protests), I went to get money out of a bank machine and it had been smashed.

She says that last week she watched from the other side of the road as a bunch of them set on a cash machine near Vavin metro station, they apparently weren't black blocs (hard left/anarchists), they were GJs. And today in Montparnasse a group of GJs yelled anti-Semitic insults at a famous French (Jewish) philosopher.

Icantreachthepretzels · 16/02/2019 21:11

Look, i'm not saying any of this will happen but i still think its worth fighting for, no matter how slim the chances.

Agreed.

You are missing the point that legally enforceable amendments are utter bollocks
because the EU has said that the document is finished

I think the amendments are ones like the Cooper/Boles that insist on a request for extension rather than ones that attempt to fiddle the backstop. Changing the W.A - even if we pretend we could - doesn't stop brexit. So I doubt that's what jasjas* meant.

*yes - yes. I KNOW. just because we ask doesn't mean it will be given.

I'm now working on the assumption that Crash Out was the intention of the Maybot's programmers from the outset, and everything that has happened since is merely theatre to misdirect the gullible (MPs, basically!) with a pretence of consultation

I absolutely believe this is true. No deal has been the aim of the brexiteers all along. That's how they make the most money. And in all probability they will succeed. But there is still a chance that they might be thwarted. It is worth fighting to thwart disaster capitalists - no matter how low your chances of success.
The fight starts with moderate mps voting to request an extension if the W.A isn't passed by whatever date they pick. Then - when we hear the EUs decision on that they can either move towards a final say on W.A/ remain if 'yes' or vote through the W.A/ demand revocation if 'no.'

But we have to keep telling them that we want them to fight.

1tisILeClerc · 16/02/2019 21:12

The trouble with GJ in France is that every vehicle driver and passenger has a jacket and it is so easy to slip them on and confuse the situation.

1tisILeClerc · 16/02/2019 21:22

{But we have to keep telling them that we want them to fight.}
The ERG is playing 'dirty' and has a lot of money at stake.
Messing about with PV/final say or whatever is no good and just wastes time, money and raising peoples hopes.
There is no real sign MPs will actually do 'the right thing' when push comes to shove.
The unwritten constitution has so many holes in it, presumably 'designed' so that 'the powers that be' remain the powers that be are putting this whole debacle down to matters of legal 'opinion' and not actual law. Radical measures are needed.

lljkk · 16/02/2019 21:27

Yup, compromise is where I'm at. I don't want any kind of Brexit but I accept we can't Remain. WA has my support.

Sadly I'm not one of "The People" (who voted for this debaucle) so no one in power gives a damn about my preference.

Westminstenders: Oh Look is that a fire in the Italian Capital?
TalkinPeece · 16/02/2019 21:28

But we have to keep telling them that we want them to fight
Keep telling WHO?
And what do we want them to fight FOR?

FFS there are three options
(a) Revoke
(b) No deal
(c) the WA as it stands and then years more haggling

everything else is rainbow unicorns
Corbyn and May are in bed together facilitating the ERG

1tisILeClerc · 16/02/2019 21:31

{Corbyn and May are in bed together facilitating the ERG}
That sounds SO bad!

1tisILeClerc · 16/02/2019 21:34

The 'No deal' option will actually involve at least a year of haggling as all treaties will need renegotiating but the UK will have NO power at all and will just be signing whatever is written.

TalkinPeece · 16/02/2019 21:42

LeClerc
Its MEANT to sound bad
the two of them are destroying the country

The 'No deal' option will actually involve at least a year of haggling
try decade

Icantreachthepretzels · 16/02/2019 21:55

Keep telling WHO?

The moderate Mps. You know the ones who get to propose amendments and then vote on them. Obviously.

TalkinPeece · 16/02/2019 21:58

pretzels
The moderate Mps. You know the ones who get to propose amendments and then vote on them. Obviously.
You mean the ones who are facing deselection by their local parties so will do nothing
AND
A parliamentary amendment is a chocolate teapot
it changes nothing
there are three options
there is no more "negotiation" to be done, just decision

1tisILeClerc · 16/02/2019 22:04

{there is no more "negotiation" to be done, just decision}
Absolutely.
This has been the situation almost since November but the delays are forcing no deal.

jasjas1973 · 16/02/2019 22:09

So, are you saying that if May went to the EU and said i want to negotiate based a CU and a close SM relationship or similar, you are sayin the EU would say FO ?

No, they wouldn't and therefore an extension could be granted.

Now, it might be unlikely May will ask for this and she could well have another plan to get her WA through but as i said earlier, ime of the Tory party, anything they will really fight for will be v bad for all of us.

Remember, a no-deal screws up the GFA and May will not want to be remembered as the PM that did that.

whymewhynow · 16/02/2019 22:11

Hey! There's another march been announced for next month - 23 March. It could be bittersweet but maybe being surrounded by several hundred thousand like-minded people will remind us to keep fighting. I hope some WMers can make it.

HazardGhost · 16/02/2019 22:13

It is a huge pleasure to tell you that on 23 March, six days before the Government hopes to take us out of the EU with their deal, we are going to stage an historic march to demand they ‘Put It To The People’.

We need you to be there.

It is now clear the Government want to run down the clock down in a desperate bid to persuade MPs to back their deal. So the 23rd of March is likely to be High Noon for Brexit - when anyone who cares about the future, anyone who feels betrayed by broken promises in the last referendum, anyone who wants to prevent years more of this chaos needs to make their voice heard.

I wanna gooooo....

I probably won't be able toooo....

sulks

1tisILeClerc · 16/02/2019 22:18

{So, are you saying that if May went to the EU and said i want to negotiate based a CU and a close SM relationship or similar, you are sayin the EU would say FO ?}

They will say, hand us the signed WA and we will talk about it.
Which part of 'No more negotiations' is puzzling you?

TalkinPeece · 16/02/2019 22:22

So, are you saying that if May went to the EU and said i want to negotiate based a CU and a close SM relationship or similar, you are sayin the EU would say FO ?
They would say
Give us the approved WA then we talk there is NO MORE NEGOTIATING
A50 has been invoked by the UK

If from the WA it turns into a BINO then the WA and the backstop will be done and dusted in weeks
but without the WA going through the Commons in its current form
the only options are
No Deal
Revoke

Jericho1 · 16/02/2019 22:23

And today in Montparnasse a group of GJs yelled anti-Semitic insults at a famous French (Jewish) philosopher

I saw that. Sad

Whitehall and Trafalgar Square is the scene of regular Saturday afternoon thuggery. Much smaller mobs of similar types. Violent today.

jasjas1973 · 16/02/2019 22:24

Leclerc - there is no need to be condescending is there?