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Brexit

Westminstenders: Oh Look is that a fire in the Italian Capital?

994 replies

RedToothBrush · 14/02/2019 21:20

Next stop: 27th Feb.

Where we will apparently have Cooper-Boles II which apparently will pass but still assumes that
a) the EU will grant us an extension despite our fuckwittery
b) that it will prevent accidental no deal, which it doesn't
c) glosses over the minor point that the only way to 100% prevent no deal is to say you'll revoke if everything else fails

Meanwhile in reality we leave in law on 29th March, despite the rest of the law having zero chance of being ready in time. Withdrawal Agreement and No Deal alike.

All that is actually happening is the Tories and Labour fighting amongst themselves. Corbyn is still pretending that Brexit isn't really that important and hoping it will just go away. May is still trying to compromise with the ERG - whom if you paying attention 18 months ago were obviously were never going to compromise on anything - cos they are fuckwitted swivel eyed loons.

Meanwhile the entire country has no other alternative but to assume no deal and act accordingly.

A deal on the 21st March (as is the planned date of the Meaningful Vote) is simply too late for planners. For them no deal has already happened even if it does never come to pass.

The strategy of brinkmanship has destroyed us. We just don't know it yet.

A Split in the Tory and Labour parties may well make matters even worse going forward with further political polarisation.

Where next for Brexit?

Who knows and does it even matter now? The damage is irreversible and will take at least a generation to heal wounds. Economically it may never be recoverable.

FUKD.

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BiglyBadgers · 16/02/2019 13:59

Well maybe I'm mis reading it but it implies that there is a group of MP's that will get together to stop No Deal.

And how are they going to do that? Unless there is enough of them that all agree on a single option that is acceptable to the EU and can both get this through parliament and then force May to follow through on it before the end of March then they can rant against no deal as much as they like.

Icantreachthepretzels · 16/02/2019 14:01

Well maybe I'm mis reading it but it implies that there is a group of MP's that will get together to stop No Deal.

And if they actually do it - I'll celebrate (a little - no deal is automatic, it can't actually be taken off the table.) But I won't raise my hopes until the resignations actually happen and they follow through on their promise.

They've said it before. They've not done it before.

But I'm adding David Gaulke to my list of people to email.

Littlespaces · 16/02/2019 14:03

If it comes down to 'No Deal' versus 'Revoke' it IS comforting to think there are MP's that might get together to stop No Deal in the national interest. I think Ken Clarke suggested Revoking A50 and starting again.

I don't even pretend to know how it would be done as the whole thing is an almighty tangled knot.

Motheroffourdragons · 16/02/2019 14:03

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Littlespaces · 16/02/2019 14:05

But No Deal is even more frightening for those MP's.

Littlespaces · 16/02/2019 14:05

Or it should be.....

BiglyBadgers · 16/02/2019 14:08

Even if there was a sudden and unexpected majority for revoke in the HoC do they even have the power to force May to do it?

She is absolutely determined to see us leave the EU on the 29th March and has plenty of form for ignoring the will of parliament. Unless they can circumnavigate her I'm not sure that revoke can be forced through if she won't play nice. I would be very happy to be corrected on this if I'm wrong...

Littlespaces · 16/02/2019 14:12

I honestly don't know the answer to that question. Any legal experts on emergency governments in the national interest?

Also what happened to the report that MP's voted to be allowed to see? The report which was hidden. The secret one that details what would happen to UK under 'No Deal'.

Missbel · 16/02/2019 14:18

Even if there was a sudden and unexpected majority for revoke in the HoC do they even have the power to force May to do it? Good question.

And any attempts by Brexiteers to shift blame can fuck right off. I hold them (active pushers and passive drones alike) responsible for this unholy mess. I would always seek to forgive, but that first requires repentance, which seems to be in very short supply. The damage caused by their arrogance or ignorance makes my blood boil. I share you anger on this - and have now left a forum which I helped set up 10 years ago because I cannot contain my rage at the complacency of the Brexiters and their insistence that it's the Remainers who are somehow making this go all wrong.

I'm also outraged by the claim that Leavers "knew what they were voting for" - Really? They were voting for people to be terrified that they wouldn't be able to get their insulin and my DD to be worried about getting the medication that controls her autoimmune condition? For their friends and neighbours to lose their jobs? Either they are lying or they are a horrible uncaring people.

dontcallmelen · 16/02/2019 14:30

Bigly that’s what I was wondering, I know I’m an idiot but a tiny part of me keeps thinking that the MPs who don’t want this nightmare will work together, regardless of what party they represent & revoke a50.
The rational & reasonably sane part of me still left, realises this is extremely unlikely, but I can’t yet abandon the hope they will do what is best for the country, as I said I know this is incredibly naive im just really struggling that they could trash a country & it’s people knowingly.

TalkinPeece · 16/02/2019 14:33

Talking to a friend last night who was surprised that we are stockpiling.
I pointed out that I do not want to have to dash to the shops during the days when the supply chain breaks down.
I suspect they will start stockpiling this weekend.

jasjas1973 · 16/02/2019 15:19

Well, i am against the WA, i see it as a short term fix that allow the Tories to create their Singapore on Sea they are so keen on.

May has never done a thing that helps the ordinary folk of the UK and this WA is no different, it is designed to keep the party together and in power and if it is ratified will prove to be a disaster for the UK.

Hammond has had his trip to China to talk trade cancelled, or rather he cancelled b4 the Chinese did, after that dick Williamson and his Return of the Empire speech ... tbh there was never ever going to be a uk fleet sailing into disputed waters, as i said on another thread, it might go to Capetown.

But what slap in the face for our post brexit Unicorn! if weren't so sad it would be hilarious.

Possibly, there will be a vote on 27/2, the WA will then be defeated and the Govt/MPs will have to act - there are senior ministers who do not want to be associated with no-deal and would be glad to see the rump ERG fuck off.

1tisILeClerc · 16/02/2019 15:20

When you have the likes of Farage who is just a shit stirrer (with a vested interest in making money), The ERG with backing of large amounts of dodgy money between them maintaining the 'no deal is great' theme which a significant number of 'unthinkers' just nod along to, and the 26% who think that 'no deal' means we stay the same, added to a bit of intimidation threats of violence whatever it is a far cry from a focused and stable government. Somehow the 'steam' needs to escape from this mess before anyone can make rational decisions. There is now a £80 Billion 'hole' in the economy. Businesses are on the verge of leaving and will not return as they cannot see rational government returning for at least a year and unless the ERG and gang are eliminated the UK will not be in a fit state to encourage any serious investment. Apart from the lying and game playing by many MPs the UK is simply becoming unviable in so many little ways. If the Labour party had a clear 'pro EU' stance with a charismatic leader to take it forward it would provide a glimmer of hope, but no they are divided and finding reasons to squabble among themselves.
There are only 3 outcomes on the EU's table, Revoke, WA or no deal, anything else is just UK fantasy. The UK gov put itself in this position by refusing to engage in proper dialogue nearly 3 years ago.
It is evident, even on this thread that many in the UK regard the EU as 'them'. The UK IS the EU and it is telling that the EU is referred to in this way. It is like referring to your child or partner in the 'third party'.

Littlespaces · 16/02/2019 15:23

Either they are lying or they are a horrible uncaring people.

I know a lot of them and this is just not true. Like any group of people they are a mixture of good, bad, foolish & naive.

In my opinion they have fallen for a massive con trick set up by a bunch of self interested crooks.

1tisILeClerc · 16/02/2019 15:31

{Well, i am against the WA, i see it as a short term fix that allow the Tories to create their Singapore on Sea they are so keen on.}
The WA is not a 'short term fix.
It is the UK leaving the EU by the fastest SAFE way possible so that the citizens of the UK do not die due to lack of meds or food. The EU who have spent many thousands of hours with experts across all 27 countries have suggested the process, if done briskly but competently is likely to take about 2 years. This is the degree of complexity that is being discussed. Even a 'crash out' will take a year to achieve, during which all manner of 'incidents' will occur, simply because it is not managed.
The experts in the EU have concluded that even a 'crash out' scenario will take a year, and as such have suggested a tranche of plans to help themselves and the UK disentangle. Of course it is the EU plan, so it will help the EU most, but allowing flights and ferries to continue is massively helpful to the UK. The EU would be within their rights just to stop all cooperation with the UK on 30 March.

Missbel · 16/02/2019 15:31

Perhaps I was a little over strong - but if people say that they "knew" what the outcome of leaving without a deal would be, then either they didn't really know, in which case they are either very naive (I should have thought of that), or they are lying, or they did really know in which case they are people who just don't care what happens to the vulnerable (or the country). If they were conned, I don't think they'll ever admit it - it will always be someone else's fault that the golden uplands didn't materialise. If of course they're right and it's all wonderful, then I'll be cheering too - though if I have to wait 50 years to find out, I guess my cheering will be subterranean...

Littlespaces · 16/02/2019 15:36

I don't think they will admit they have been conned either. Human nature.

prettybird · 16/02/2019 15:36

May has a lot to answer for her blithe "No deal is better than a bad deal" Hmm

It opened a Pandora's Box that has come back to bite her badly on the bum and refuses to get back in the box (to mix metaphors badly Grin) SadAngry

Motheroffourdragons · 16/02/2019 15:38

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1tisILeClerc · 16/02/2019 15:38

Nobody KNEW what leaving would really entail. As far as I am aware, the bulk of the WA is largely a summary of the things that need to be discussed and resolved, and that is 585 pages worth. Any that will not include the 'knock on' effects of one thing stopping which will roll into others.

Littlespaces · 16/02/2019 15:39

The petition has taken off. Probably won't help but wouldn't it be great if people on both sides who are now starting to think 'Oh Shit it is all going wrong' actually signed it.

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/239706

Littlespaces · 16/02/2019 15:40

Another con artist who has made money....

www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top-stories/david-davis-makes-a-fortune-since-quitting-as-brexit-secretary-1-5892665

1tisILeClerc · 16/02/2019 15:44

Some of May's red lines are counter to the WA I think.

Motheroffourdragons · 16/02/2019 15:45

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Littlespaces · 16/02/2019 15:52

Another petition.

www.change.org/p/parliament-say-notonodeal