Westministenders: A Special Place in Hell

[RedToothBrush]

A quick start to a new thread (as I've not been paying attention this evening!).

May is looking to ditch the Malthouse Compromise. Cos its so rubbish.

The ERG look like they are splitting over it anyway.

Up to sixty Labour MPs could back the WA.

Half the ERG plus Labour Leave Rebels could be enough to get the WA over the line.

Donald Tusk, makes controversial comment by more or less stating the obvious.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/3492426-Westministenders-Abbreviation
Guide to Brexit Abbreviations and Terms

The most disloyal politicans are thse who intend to use Brexit to make large profits,
or who have let policy be set by party donors hoping for this.

The next most disloyal are those who prioritise their ideology above ordinary people being able to keep their jobs, their meds, their standard of living.

Voting for a referendum - which they were told was advisory only - does NOT mean MPs are also bound to support the result of the referendum

It certainly doesn't mean they have to support Brexit when it turns out to mean something very much more damaging than the Norway++ form that all the pundits were assuming

MPs may vote for a GE, but it certainly doesn't mean they just allow through the manifesto policies of the winning party

MPs can fiercely oppose policies like e.g. the bedroom tax or the benefit cap or UC, regardless of whether these were in the winning manifesto
and regardless of whether there is public support for the policies
e.g. public support for the benefit cap seems pretty high, but MPs were perfectly entitled to oppose it at every stage

David Davies was saying before the ref:

"Referendums should be held when people know exactly what they are getting"

"When we know what Brexit is, give us a final say"

I agree with him.

The last time I went to a country which wasn't in a trading bloc my basket of shopping cost double the amount for the same food here.

If you want to stop Brexit altogether, then I wish you luck with your campaign, and as a leave voter, I still think there is a chance that it will be prevented from happening, or at least delayed

Thank you, so do i, which is why i don't support the WA.

Aside from the fact that for the next 2 to ?? years, it leaves us as a rule taker, paying in, no say and zero certainty for business either, it will take years to negotiate a trading relationship with the EU - FoM, fishing and Gib will see to that.

Wtaf

Back May’s Deal then hold people’s vote - amendment

It sounds sensible but I think Leavers will hate it.

May will whip her MPs to oppose this idea, with dup support - it would split her party.

Another one, slightly different.

www.ft.com/content/40258f86-2556-11e9-b20d-5376ca5216eb

That would be great if the amendment passes with cross-party support
and apparently support from some in govt.

Will May & Corbyn whip for or against ?
Let's see if enough MPs will vote for it

• the last chance to stand up and be counted, or be just party fodder & careerists

"Together with Commons clerks, the two Labour MPs have found a precedent for the plan in the way the Good Friday Agreement on Northern Ireland power-sharing passed through parliament in 1998."

Right, Parliament voted in favour of the GFA, but only subject to approval by referendums in both NI and the RoI

So here, MPs choose the specific form of Brexit
then - as DD promised ! - the people vote if they want it

Since Brexit is the most far-reaching decision since WW2, let's be sure there is consent on its form.
Let voters decide whether they prefer the specific form of Brexit on offer - not the unicorn promises - or the status quo of Remain

Totally agree BCF but May will whip against it, she is dead set against a PV or an extension, its her "work" to deliver brexit and on time, that's what she said and i found that very scary.

Hopefully enough in her party & cabinet will take a stand

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/feb/09/a-hidden-government-is-preparing-for-brexit-by-keeping-us-in-the-dark

The secrecy imposed on the civil service is the second reason why, if trouble comes, it will appear to come from nowhere.

The truth is that we have a hidden government, thinking the unthinkable in secret,
not as an academic parlour game in which an idea is reduced to absurdity for intellectual pleasure,

but as a means of stopping voters realising the scale of the trouble we may be facing

I am assuming that, as Farages new party has no councillors, MEPs or MPs and so far no support in the polls, he will not get a place on QT or any other panel show?

That actually sounds like a good ammendment but the usual idiots will vote against it and it'll fail.

It’s a terrible idea.

If you’re going to have a PV have a PV, don’t have one contingent on passing a crap deal that nobody wants.

It's an attempt to break the deadlock, MPs won't vote for a PV alone in a million years, if anything their views are hardening on it.

A bad choice because your options are limited and under pressure is still a bad choice.

It won't pass anyway.

When Corbyn went to tea with May
he to Seamus Milne
not Kier Starmer
Corbyn wants Brexit FAR MORE than May
She is a racist Xenophobe
But he is an utter isolationist

It tells you how utterly clueless those in charge are. People voicing ideas and proposals as far fetched and divergent as they come (e.g. Malthouse Vs this idea of WA then PV). I find this complete inconsistency very scary. Tells you they really don't have a fucking clue

Tatiana What other choice would you give in a PV ?
We are where we are, not where we wish to be

There is no other WA on offer from the EU
They have said only that we can change the PD, but the backstop stays

Tusk spelled that out pretty clearly

• I did wonder at the time if he was telling MPs to vote for the WA

or just possibly that it's their last chance to stand up now for a PV

Another example of NO Planning or even analysis for Brexit - the DUP:

https://amp.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/uk/dup-meeting-on-partys-brexit-stance-did-not-discuss-impact-on-northern-ireland-says-jim-wells-37791988.htmll^??^

Jim Wells (DUP MLA) has lifted the lid on the crunch DUP meeting which decided which side the party would back in the EU referendum campaign
which subsequently saw it catapulted into the centre of UK and EU politics.

He revealed there was no impact assessment presented on how a leave win would affect Northern Ireland^
....^
He said given the party's opposition to the EU for over four decades - and the experience gathered over that time - it was an easy decision to make.

He said the mechanics of how the UK departed - including for a solution to the Irish border - were not discussed.
Nor was a presentation on the strengths or weaknesses of leaving or remaining done.

I don’t mind WA being on a PV I just don’t think the WA should have to be passed to get it.

It won’t work anyway, the WA will still get voted down.

There does NOT appear to be anywhere near a majority of MPs prepared to vote for a PV on its own
but passing the WA at the same time seems to bring in some more votes

It might make May and / or Corbyn change from a 3-line whip against to a 1 or 2-line one,
which a PV on its own wouldn't do.

One advantage:
it would be transparent to all MPs and voters that if they vote for Brexit, then this WA is automatically what they would get, no ifs or buts,
because it would have already have been passed

As when voting in the GFA referendums

If they don't pass the WA, then it's No Deal.
Remainers need to finally accept this

Spoiler: she won't