Westministenders: A Special Place in Hell

[RedToothBrush]

A quick start to a new thread (as I've not been paying attention this evening!).

May is looking to ditch the Malthouse Compromise. Cos its so rubbish.

The ERG look like they are splitting over it anyway.

Up to sixty Labour MPs could back the WA.

Half the ERG plus Labour Leave Rebels could be enough to get the WA over the line.

Donald Tusk, makes controversial comment by more or less stating the obvious.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/3492426-Westministenders-Abbreviation
Guide to Brexit Abbreviations and Terms

Agree with prettybird and Babooshka - there is no party (apart from UKIP and the DUP?) who haven't got eagerly on board with the TRA Self-ID agenda. Therefore, if I were to require ideological perfection, I wouldn't be able to vote for any party and I would have to spoil my ballot.

Else I have to hold my nose when I vote - so should I hold my nose and vote (say LD) for a pro-European party, or should I hold my nose and vote (say UKIP) for a anti-Self-ID but in every other way a woman-hating chauvinistic party?

I believe th Communist Party is gender critical.

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So what you're saying leclerc is that it is all our fault for just not trying hard enough.

Can't you understand why for many women dealing with death threats and constantly challenging them in a culture which minimises attacks in women as something we bring upon ourselves is just not something they have the energy or resilience to deal with?

Telling woman who have experienced abuse, who have been told over and again their views aren't worth anything, who are have to fight to have their work recognised as of the same value as men that they just need to challenge a bit more is frankly insulting.

What the hell do you think feminism has been doing all these years if not fighting this crap? It is hard and slow and difficult and just saying if we believed in ourselves more we could do whatever we wanted is bollocks.

This thread shows why coalitions are really the only way forward ... otherwise Brexit - and this is the bit that might get the feet on the street - Brexit will have been for nothing.

It will have been the political equivalent of arguing almost to the death over what wallpaper should be in the lounge, while the kitchens on fire.

^(Caring responsibilities most often taken on by women,) Who says so?
Can't it be challenged? Men don't want the jobs because they are low pay - primary school teachers/healthcare workers for old people - there is a push to get more men in but the majority of men aren't interested
(gender pay gaps)
Creative means necessary to change this. Same pay for same job. Agreed - also valuing the work women do in companies to facilitate their higher paid male counterparts. Something that always struck me was how much time men had for golf/networking events in clubs, where women apparently would rather be in the office on the ground doing the work
(cultural expectations), Why? because a lot of men think they should earn more than women - see above why men don't take lower paid care roles
(social norms),
Challenge this. All of us need to, not just women
(constant abuse and death threats if we put our head above the political parapet)
Illegal activity, More pressure needs applying to prevent this. all part of social change - women are allowed an opinion or to have that opinion and be naked for eg - see JH show and his mocking earlier today on R4
(Women are socialised not to have strong opinions, to please people and not be bossy)
Not so much in my life and indeed the 'stereotypical' but probably inaccurate view of miners wives had many of them 'in control'. It's soft control, only allowed if men don't feel they are actually being controlled. Doesn't often work both ways

The point of my comments are to suggest that if you really want something, it is possible and you have to ignore the 'naysayers'.^ very easy to say from a position of male privilege, which I won't dwell on. My good friend has recently had a year off to have a baby and been told she had to report to her replacement - who she actually interviewed and gave the role to. Expressing her disbelief at this, they have "moved her to another department". She could take them to court and have her name tarnished and find it hard to gain further employment, or she could just suck it up. Something men don't even have to consider

This thread shows why coalitions are really the only way forward ... otherwise Brexit - and this is the bit that might get the feet on the street - Brexit will have been for nothing

Neither Lab nor Con will advance a PR voting system and the nature of Parliament is adversarial, no one is going to knock down the HoC and turn it into a circular chamber!
So, Brexit is for nothing, as we all knew from the start.

As a brexitier client has just said to me in the last 20mins "Doesn't seem to be any benefits to leaving the EU is there?"

To give the SNP their due, even though it would reduce their numbers at Westminster, they are still in favour of PR

Vote LD for Brexit and PR.

Leave HoC as museum and move parliament to Stoke.

The system needs a shake.

Sorry guys, warning this article is not going to improve your sleep.

Brexit 'no-deal' crisis command centre starts hiring civilians
www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/feb/08/brexit-no-deal-crisis-command-centre-starts-hiring-civilians

The only differences between people from 1789 and 2019 is we have digital watches. Fundamentally we're still humans.

Allowing huge numbers of people that are disenfranchised to build up is not a good thing for society.

jasjas which is what us remainers have been asking them for for 2.5 years! If they couldn't think of any before the vote, how did they expect that to change?

Bigly I'd actually love to do a job like that. As with most other work I like the look of it is in London, however. Somewhat limiting for a single mother who lives an hour outside it!

But isn't there a CAP Reform due in 2020, which aims to increase payments to small and medium sized farmers and reduce payments to large ones, encourage biodiversity and put the onus on to EU member countries that subsidies only go to genuine farmers?

https://ec.europa.eu/info/food-farming-fisheries/key-policies/common-agricultural-policy/future-cap_en

Wrong thread Pretty

I did have a few moments of considering applying lonely. I imagine there will be a lot of stuff up my street required. On reflection though I don't think I would want to be associated with any of the chaos of a no deal brexit and seeing the mess we are in now I suspect it would end up being a hellish place to work. All the worst bits of public sector politics.

I was mainly though just slightly dismayed at the size of the operation and the mentions of issues with clean water supply. Really brings home the scale of the potential crisis.

Yes, I agree jas, lecelerc I wouldn't vote for women like Nadine Dorries, Andrea Leadsom

• we may share chromosones with them, but some of us also have working brain cells.

It is the quality & views of the individual that matter, not their chromosones,
For my vote, it's also their courage - or not - in standing up for principles I share

I'm flexible about party too, maybe because I'm a lifelong centrist
I really want PR, because this would force coalitions covering a wider range of views than the "winner takes all, sod the losers" FPTP system that rewards divisive politics

(if they stood for my seat) I would vote for Anna Soubry, Sarah Wollaston, Ken Clark, Dominic Grieve
equally I would vote for Yvette Cooper, Chuka Umunna, David Lammy, Sadiq Khan (Mayor)
I don't see anyone useful in the LDems atm
In NI, I would vote for Sylvia Hermon, not impressed by any other NI politician

Several of us have principals we won't compromise and consider there are worse things even than Brexit

So, that's e.g. Mother re LDems breaking their uni fees promise - she's perfectly entitled to say they'll never get her vote.

Dangermouse, several other feminists and I who won't vote LDems or Greens because of their sellout to the TRAs and the outrageously obvious Challoner paedophile case

btw, NoSIxPlease The Women's Equality Party also sold us out to the TRAs, which is a particularly egregious betrayal.
So they'll never get my vote either

I’d love to apply, but

1. I have a job
2. It’s presumably insecure- after all ‘we’re not going to have hard brexit’
3. It’s in London

Although, that is £2000 a week...

Oops Thanks Pesty

Agree BigChoc we all have different criteria when deciding who to vote for and nobody should feel bad about their choice, as long as they've actually damn well thought about it, instead of just blindly ticking the box for the donkey with the right colour rosette.

For me, the immediate priority is Brexit and its inevitable fallout. In my constituency, it's either Labour or LibDem. As far as I'm concerned, both parties are woke dudebro TRA sellouts who are happy to throw actual women under the bus, so I'm not going to base my vote on that. It so happens that my Labour MP is pro-EU; however this hasn't stopped his [however many thousand] votes being counted amongst the "80% of votes were cast for Brexit-supporting parties" which, if I'd voted for him, would make me feel even sicker to the pit of my stomach. So here, I hold my nose and vote LibDem.

If a viable pro-European, pro-science, pro-women, pro-environment centrist party was ever on offer, I'd damn well vote for them with a song in my heart.

But that's not currently an option.

Apparently John McDonnell has suggested another referendum is necessary if PM doesn't support Labour's proposed changes to WA. Is this party policy or is John McDonnell trying to court remainers' favour?

John macdonnall can kiss my peri menopausal arse, the shitbag.

Several of us have principals we won't compromise and consider there are worse things even than Brexit

I imagine that labour remainers who continue to vote labour on the basis of the non-brexit elements of their manifesto feel the same. Yet fury has been heaped upon them on these threads for failing to acknowledge the importance of brexit and proping up the Corbyn leadership.

Friend of mine on fb who is a policeman said that next month they are all getting a £350 "bonus"/bung.
I'm confident this isn't a coincidence.