Westministenders: A Special Place in Hell

[RedToothBrush]

A quick start to a new thread (as I've not been paying attention this evening!).

May is looking to ditch the Malthouse Compromise. Cos its so rubbish.

The ERG look like they are splitting over it anyway.

Up to sixty Labour MPs could back the WA.

Half the ERG plus Labour Leave Rebels could be enough to get the WA over the line.

Donald Tusk, makes controversial comment by more or less stating the obvious.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/3492426-Westministenders-Abbreviation
Guide to Brexit Abbreviations and Terms

Apparently John McDonnell has suggested another referendum is necessary if PM doesn't support Labour's proposed changes to WA. Is this party policy or is John McDonnell trying to court remainers' favour?

I think he seems to be trying to cling onto the last vestiges of the policy agreed at conference while Corbyn just blunders around doing his own thing. I imagine it's attempted damage limitation to try and hang onto some of their voters. I doubt it will make any difference. In fact as it highlights the growing split in the party and increasing dysfunction it's almost certainly just doing more damage.

These people are so clueless as to the lack of time. It's increasingly frustrating watching them naval gaze to the press for publicity. Waste of space in our papers that should be being filled with practical advice and what now needs to be done IRL not on unicorn island.

maybe the problem is we're simply not consumerist enough about politics ? Perhaps we should be as cynical as the politicians we end up with, and treat out vote like a shopping trip. This time, it might go to Labour, but no reason why next time it might not go Green. Or tory.

There's probably a BBC4 programme in looking at the curious fact that while we are generally a secular society, we are almost religious about our votes ?

Mid 80s when I was visiting DPs in Harrow, from Uni, we had a knock at the door one fine summers evening. My DB answered it, and I was nosey as to why he had a chat with the caller - and what about. Turned out it was the Labour candidate for the local election. When he explained who he was, DB made a joke that it must be a thankless task (our bit of Harrow having been bluer than blue ever since we lived there). He was then told an interesting story that it wasn't always so, and that back in the 60s, when local authorities were allowed to choose comprehensive over grammar, all of Harrow voted Labour to get the comprehensive system (of which I am a proud product). They then immediately re-voted Tory which was what I grew up with. Annoyingly Priti "thicko" Patel also benefited from it.

We lived a few doors down from our local Tory councillor who was a racist, misogynistic cunt who DF played like a fine violin when it came to getting planning permission for our 10ft extension.

Anyway, we should all be a bit more consumerist in our leaders. After all, the customer is king. If you had really shit service from Sainsburys surely you'd change shops ?

Jericho -What makes anyone think there will be any more elections?

I’ve been wondering that myself...

DG that's how I've always seen it. Party loyalty is an odd concept.

Scotland used to be (One Nation) "Unionist" (the Conservatives before they changed their name), especially at local level.

Then the Scots went through a long period of "Monkey in a red rosette" voting.

So things can change.

DG that's how I've always seen it. Party loyalty is an odd concept.

I'd suggest it's definitely something in the British ... English psyche. Possibly it comes from the same place which gives some businesses the aura of not giving a shit about customers ? The same place which led a Nat West bank manager to chase my DF into the street after he'd closed his account (long story) shouting "You can't do that ! This is England for Gods sake, you just can't do that !!!!!" as me, DM and 2 DBs waited in the car.

I also quite like the ancient Roman mix'n'match approach to religion ...

Just seen this on BBC ... not really on topic, but I know it'll be appreciated. And it's fucking brilliant to feel a surge of pride in the city I've ended up in ...

And "Ghost Town" is one of those time/place songs which defined a year in my life.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-47147069#

It is less than two years since Saffiyah Khan's calm smile, inches from the face of an English Defence League activist, made global headlines. But since then, she has gone through a frenzy of activity that has taken in everything from the catwalk, to making a film with the BBC, to performing with ska revivalists, The Specials.

When the 20-year-old was photographed defending a woman at a protest outside Birmingham Library on 8 April 2017, she was moments away from going viral.

That photograph of her coolly going toe-to-toe with a protester was seen by thousands and described in The Guardian as a symbol of the city "standing up to the far-right group".

But perhaps what is less known about that image is that from a different angle Khan can be clearly seen wearing a Specials T-shirt. Within hours the band had offered her tickets to one of their gigs.

(contd)

Surely time you cast your vote there's an element of compromise. You weigh up what matters most to you and vote accordingly, right?

Ok, I am not working at the moment due to being disabled. I would bloody LOVE to get into politics. It is my passion. Any ideas how?

Surely time you cast your vote there's an element of compromise. You weigh up what matters most to you and vote accordingly, right?

Well I do. But there's a hell of a lot of people who just say "Lifelong Labour voter", or "Lifelong Conservative voter" and that's that.

On the basis the US seems to able to switch between Republican and Democrat presidents with huge swings, I'm assuming (dangerous ....) that the average US voter is much less wedded to one party ?

Absolutely loving the list of "high quality" individual MPs people have cited on here, Sarah Wollaston, Chuka Umuna, Luciana Berger, Jess Phillips, Anna Soubry, David Lammy....dreadful without exception.

God, what an absolute shower, I wouldn't vote for any of those cited if they paid me!

Ok, I am not working at the moment due to being disabled. I would bloody LOVE to get into politics. It is my passion. Any ideas how?

Arguably, you've just disqualified yourself .

Anyone who wants to do the job should be barred.

Sortition is the way forward. (Even if my spellchecker wants to pretend it doesn't exist ... maybe it's a plot )

Just as well we all have different opinions then - and are still allowed to vote it's only advisory referendums that are sacrosanct for all time

I've got time for all those on that list: and would add in Dominic Grieve, Nicolas Soames (who at least acknowledges how privileged he is), Wes Streeting and Yvette Cooper (off the top of my head).

They have all made intelligent and considered contributions to the debate and not just empty soundbites without even the sketch of a plan even though I don't necessarily agree with all their politics.

Long time lurker surfacing here. Thanks to you all for your educational and informative threads. I don't discuss Brexit IRL. Both my DH and DSs believe it will all end up ok (!) and whilst I would like to share their optimism I prefer to base my opinions on 'evidence based reality' to quote James O'Brien. Luckily my DH hasn't noticed or has chosen not to comment on my careful forward purchasing.
DGRosetti i too come from Harrow and benefitted from the excellent comprehensive system in the 80s and was the first in our family to go to university. My parents' reasoning for voting for the conservatives was exactly as you describe. I'm also a big fan of Ghost Town!

My lovely mum is now checking the labels of her favourite foods to see where they are made and buying extra if from the EU. She's asked today if clothes prices will go up. She saw her friend this week who said "we'll manage" I pointed out the insulin issue and mum says she doubts her friend had thought of anything like that. People are so fucking ignorant. My leaver sister was very quiet on it all apart from to say it was a big mess. I forgive my mum for her vote because she truly didn't understand, was lied to, and doesn't do the internet to have gained more information, and she deeply regrets her vote to leave. 79, widowed, state pension only as income, interest only mortgage which she's been forced to take out another loan to pay thanks to the tories stopping the mortgage help. She's broken several major bones in the last 3 years and although pretty healthy, I worry about her. I'm a single mum of 3 and need to go back to uni before I can return to my nursing career as been out too long now. Neither or us would be happy to vote for anyone but mum is of the you must vote school. Independent candidate maybe. Local Lib Dem is a sexist bully who abused our green candidate. Labour and tories are out for me. Politically homeless.

I've just had a very encouraging talk with leaver friend. She actually quoted Jess Phillips (!) about the fact many people earning over 30k have no discernible skills. I read her the job description from upthread and she didn't once say it was scaremongering and actually began talking about getting some more batteries and matches in. No ranting!

In other news, I now have appx 3 months of non-perishables (dog probably has 4 months incl 7 knuckle bones!), have just bought a battery selection pack, wind-up radio cum torch cum phone charger, water purification tablets along with lots of Collins study booklets for dd in case we are home with no electricity. I've spent a lot more than usual these last 2 months but can safely now say we won't need to set foot outside. Feels like waiting for the storm to hit now - quite appropriately it's very windy outside with a yellow weather warning!

When it comes to brexit obv who you think is a good MP is dependant on how you voted in 2016.

But Lammy has done good work on Grenfell, Phillips on rape law and womens rights, Champion on child abuse.

Some MPs are complete idiots and one really has to wonder how they've the nerve to draw a salary.
e.g. Bridgen, Francois BJ, Raab, Dorries, S.Murray, Scott Mann and of course T.May.

Chris Grey is more depressing than normal this week:

chrisgreybrexitblog.blogspot.com/

Another 'buy a bit more just to feel a bit less panicked' shop is on the cards for the way home this evening then.

Lonely, are the Collins study booklets because you think schools won't be open? Do they cover the national curriculum?

Guessing we are seeing the other side of the debate represented here then. I'm more than prepared to acknowledge strong contributions from those who didn't vote as I did, Ken Clarke, Dominic Grieve, Caroline Flint, Vernon Coaker, Kier Starmer, even if his 6 tests were nonsense.

Jess Phillips, David Lammy and Sarah Champion are simply awful IMO, for their Brexit stance and just about anything else they've ever done.

I'll never forget David Lammy passionately standing up and speaking about Glenfell tower fire. He called it what it was - a crime.

wherearemychickens - yes, I live in Kent, so I suspect she will be off school for a while. Lots on Amazon for appx £3 - you can search for the Key Stage. I've also got 2 new board games with an educational bent as those are easier to engage her in .

I've got 2 friends over tonight which will be lovely, but feeling a bit flat of conversation. Keep bringing everything back to bloody Brexit! Both friends are of the "head in the sand/someone else will sort it out" variety too.

I agree that Starmer's "6 Tests" were a chimera, absolute nonsense. Labour should have been honest and admitted that there was no way of having the exact same benefits and frictionless trade except by Remaining.

I forgot about Ken Clarke - another rebel Conservative who seems to be putting country before party (as all MPs are supposed to do ) but is powerless to change anything (I do think he should rebel even more often than he has done, rather than speak fine and worthy words and then vote with the Government).

I love Lammy. I think all of those mentioned together would be a solid party, if they would overlook their previous party alliances and work together. I just cant see them all breaking away and setting it up any time soon.