Westministenders: A Special Place in Hell

[RedToothBrush]

A quick start to a new thread (as I've not been paying attention this evening!).

May is looking to ditch the Malthouse Compromise. Cos its so rubbish.

The ERG look like they are splitting over it anyway.

Up to sixty Labour MPs could back the WA.

Half the ERG plus Labour Leave Rebels could be enough to get the WA over the line.

Donald Tusk, makes controversial comment by more or less stating the obvious.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/3492426-Westministenders-Abbreviation
Guide to Brexit Abbreviations and Terms

Anti-lib dem people and anti-Green people demand that women's opinions and rights be respected lljkk. Women's rights affect women's daily lived experiences and far too many of us have had far too many bad ones to be silenced.

Personally I find myself constrained by not having been born into money, and also time since I have dc to look after. We do need a professional political class, and it is very difficult to access if you don't have money or are female. Talk to any female MP about the threats they receive.

What makes anyone think there will be any more elections?

Fair point. Call me a perpetual optimist.

OK kitchen cupboards would be 4 inches lower but other than that what is to really stop women doing everything they want if they really want it?

Caring responsibilities most often taken on by women, gender pay gaps meaning they have to work more to earn less, cultural expectations, social norms, constant abuse and death threats if we put our head above the political parapet....maybe some of them might have an impact.

I can't vote Lib Dem My own mother was a LD and became Lord Mayor of a major city - she was a racist right winger. If their selection policies couldn't pick that up there is something badly wrong

People get upset when MacDonalds run out of food temporarily...
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3502114-Weve-run-out-of-food-said-McDonalds-WTAF-First-world-problem-light-hearted
A taste of things to come (pun unavoidable)?

Long time lurker, long time worrier and despairer and recent member of the Brexit poor sleep crowd.

Thank you so much RTB and co for these threads. They clarify all the slurry that is Brexit for my addled brain.

Very interested in the 'who do I vote for' conundrum. Can I ask what your views are on the Women's Equality Party? I was overjoyed when I heard about them but need to do research, especially re their trans standpoint. Women are entirely underrepresented in politics, but I am at a loss of what I can do to change that. My overwhelming feeling about the future is one of hopelessness and despair.

If there were an election any time soon I'll be voting lib dem in my constituency. It's a Labour heartland so no chance lib would win but I'm not being told I'm one of the 80% of people who voted for leave parties again.

And Re women's rights....the spiralling consquences of brexit and far right are waaaaaay more of a danger. I shudder at the thought of ERG/far right/ukip nutters with no EU. Anti abortion, anti rape laws, anti domestic violence laws, anti equal pay, pro traditional families and pro only the strongest deserve to survive mentality. Hell.

If there were a new centrist party I'll go there.

It seems to me that (generally speaking) when a woman gets into a position of power, she behaves in a similar way to a man i.e. self serving.
Do TMay Andrea Leadsom, Amber Rudd or Arlene Foster stand up for women's rights! or do they just put party, their own interests and ambition before everything else? just as most male MPs do.

The point i'm trying to make is that it is the quality of the individual - think Jess phillips, Sarah Champion, Yvette Cooper, Jo Johnston, Chukka Umunna that matters and not the gender.

Faisal Islam@faisalislam
Leaving Brussels - belief on EU side that Corbyn letter to PM is a “game changer” mentioned to PM directly by Tusk and Verhofstadt. Why? Because the people that matter here are unconvinced that the PM can deliver a majority of Commons having been previously promised one.

Eg readout from senior EU official - Tusk raised “promising” Corbyn letter with PM today: [[Eg readout from senior EU official - Tusk raised “promising” Corbyn letter with PM today:^
t.co/rLNzOzOw8d

Also NEW:
Barwell secret mission to Brussels Monday involved meetings with senior politicos not just scoping possible concessions, but to convince them PM has capacity to win a majority - none convinced by Brady vote. Burnt by believing claim was one for original deal lost by 230

PM acknowledged this concern in TV clip in Brussels with reference to “stable majority” - code in Brussels for a proper cross party deal that can unlock EU concessions

Corbyn letter seen as being drafted to push the right buttons in EU for example reference to “shared institutions” & now backing a backstop.

Arched eyebrows at the PM talking through “various options” rather than having a specific idea or plan to negotiate.

Some in EU27 interpreted the Government whipping the Brady vote after having implored at EU Summits that this was the only way to get a deal, as her now going for No Deal..

Some EU27 nations pressurising EC to ameliorate fairly hardline No Deal positions a bit - ambassadors meeting next week may ease eg no deal Aviation, but no plans to ease up on eg border checks for customs & animal/food. No Deal tour of EU capitals from Selmayr deputy

Bottom line: I get no sense at all there will be anything in the way or concessions until

1. UK comes up with a specific plan

more importantly:
2. That plan can be demonstrated to have a credible and stable Commons majority.

For 2. heads now being turned to Corbyn letter

Shallow, but I was immediately put off by the name. An Equality Party would have appealed to me more.

@1tisILeClerc

• Women end up with the majority of childcare and therefore less time and energy for politics
• Ditto elder care
• Women are massively under represented at more senior levels of public and private sector and so aren't seen as strong candidates for MP
• Studies have shown that the electorate take women less seriously as candidates than men (even women take female candidates less seriously according to stats!)
• Women are socialised not to have strong opinions, to please people and not be bossy which means that there is a larger proportion of women who would be uncomfortable in a political role

Just off the top of my head...I suspect there's more research out there...

Nearly bashed my head into the dash this morning listening to Humphries mocking the naked anti-Brexit lady. He said roughly "people won't respect your argument if you go about naked" she said "it's 2019 and women can wear or not wear what they like" he said "it belittles your argument" she pointed out that was his own issue for focusing on her nakedness and he said "we allow women to wear what they like but for centuries we've had limits" and couldn't see that is exactly the same argument people who wear the burka would make.
Brexit Broadcasting Co managing to turn Brexit into more of a feminist issue and I assume this was their idea of "balance", when Brexit was barely (no pun intended) discussed at all, just JH mocking the woman.

I am toying with the idea of going into politics later in life but not an option for me at the moment as we've taken on a lot of finance/big mortgage and I couldn't take the pay cut at the moment. My daily commute is 3 hours plus working anything up to 10-14 hours so not really possible to get involved in local politics 'on the side' at the moment either.

BTW I am umpteennamechanges in disguise.

Got logged out of MN in the data breach and could only remember the password to this older account. Annoying given I only got a 'newer' account because I'd forgotten the log on details to the old one 🤔

Missed Today this morning. Perhaps JH is planning to go out with an extravagant prolonged demonstration of all the reasons why he should never have been taken seriously as an interviewer in the first place.

Women's Equality Party - poor choice of name as it implies single issue. Also, I understand they’ve decided sex is irrelevant when it comes to the trans issue and so no need to balance any rights. Which puts them with the Lib Dem’s and greens.

Agreed WEP are also 'woke' and 'trans women are women'

Well said jasjas "it's the quality if the individual that matters, not the gender"

NoSix just my opinion..but... I think the Women's Equality Party are shite. I got the strong impression it's for working women of a certain type. Their brexit stance was how awful it would be that women would have to give up work due to the brexit social care worker shortage... I've already given up work (in social care) to care and i have a strong view that, that is a good and noble thing to do. -but then again im highly experienced and the best in my field, caring work isnt for everyone- I haven't become less of a person, I've become more than I ever thought possible!

There needs to be more respect for so called women's work not an insistence that to be respected women have got to be a certain way iykwim. So yeah they missed a beat with me personally but I can see their appeal to some.

NoSix I have not tried the WEP myself, but they use the vocabulary of the Trans Rights agenda. If you are happy that women should be referred to as cis, a subset of our own sex, and the definition of women be based on gender performance, see if there's a meeting you can go to. They agree that transwomen are women and anyone who believes in biological definitions is bigoted. In their quest for tolerance and diversity they have forced women who are gender-critical to leave, and recently the leader of the party has stepped down. It may - may - have been for similar reasons. Have a look at the FWR board here, and ask any lesbians you find in WEP what they think about the correlation between Trans MtF, sexual fetishes, and the 'cotton ceiling'.

On the subject of elections, I think that TM will get the WA through, and that everyone is waiting for Brexit to be sorted and over. As soon as that's waved through the splits will happen. MPs will be deselected for random party infringements, new parties will form, and there will be a lot of turbulence. Tabloids will be delighted. I expect elections towards the end of this year.

Thanks all. WEP does not speak for me when it comes to trans issues then. So, as you say Salrycluxx, no better than Lib Dems.
I despair. Where has common sense and accountability gone?

It's the wrong thread and forum to discuss this really, but my comments to these are:
(Caring responsibilities most often taken on by women,) Who says so?
Can't it be challenged?
(gender pay gaps)
Creative means necessary to change this. Same pay for same job.
(cultural expectations), Why?
(social norms),
Challenge this.
(constant abuse and death threats if we put our head above the political parapet)
Illegal activity, More pressure needs applying to prevent this.
(Women are socialised not to have strong opinions, to please people and not be bossy)
Not so much in my life and indeed the 'stereotypical' but probably inaccurate view of miners wives had many of them 'in control'.

The point of my comments are to suggest that if you really want something, it is possible and you have to ignore the 'naysayers'.

Unfortunately, I don't think a single party (and I include the SNP ) hasn't been taken in by the TRA agenda and allow men to self-identify as women and no-one is supposed to object or to point out the dangers

I tell a lie: there is one party that still believes in biological sex and not gender identification. UKIP.

So I agree that we need to hold our noses at the moment, and vote on the issues where there is a difference (and where our votes can make a difference) - but simultaneously keep campaigning to point out to all the parties that not recognising biological realities is damaging to women.

Agree entirely with Hazards post upthread. I’ve been one of the ‘hold your nose’ posters referred to and I’ve said in previous posts I’m sick of the 80% line being dragged out constantly to justify Brexit. No matter what LidDem policies might or might not be I can’t see them disadvantaging women to anything like the extent Brexit will. Their policies wouldn’t be applied anyway because they won’t get in, but at least we could show the 80% nonsense for the shameful lie it is.