Westministenders: A Special Place in Hell

[RedToothBrush]

A quick start to a new thread (as I've not been paying attention this evening!).

May is looking to ditch the Malthouse Compromise. Cos its so rubbish.

The ERG look like they are splitting over it anyway.

Up to sixty Labour MPs could back the WA.

Half the ERG plus Labour Leave Rebels could be enough to get the WA over the line.

Donald Tusk, makes controversial comment by more or less stating the obvious.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/3492426-Westministenders-Abbreviation
Guide to Brexit Abbreviations and Terms

Greens are as bad as Lib Dems Mother.

Sorry, not Annie Featherstone, Lynne Featherstone. Don't know where I got Annie from!

Destiel
{ rat something full of sugar}
Is this a sugar mouse but 'gone large'?

My speculation is that Teheresa's delay will be to allow the 'release' of some NDAs over the next week or two, a couple at a lime, to ratchet up the tension but hopefully planned to avoid mass panic.
A company or two per breakfast time to ease the HoC into the cauldron of shit that is to come, with the intention that when the WA vote appears it will truly look magnificent.

I have seen a lot of posts ranting about labour voters who say that Corbyn's policies around the NHS and social care are more important to them than brexit. Quite rightly posters find this view infuriating.

I feel exactly the same way about people who refuse to vote for the only sensible remain option because of general dislike of lib Dems.

I am no fan either, but if we had an election tomorrow I would hold my nose and put my mark in the box because it is vital than every remain vote counts for as much as it can and a message is sent that support for remain is strong.

My mother would rise from the grave and haunt me if I ever even considered not voting. I would possibly consider spoiling my paper if I only had leave options.

Yup. Starting with the way top party politicians select their positions from a very narrow range and then force us to choose one or the other. If we had a functioning democracy positions would be led from the ground up, and there would then naturally be differences and nuance. Everything in Britain operates top-down. The attacks on local government haven't helped IMHO.

But the political class still bleat on about the 'will of the people' as if it actually means something to them. It is sickening.

Lib Dems should be holding their noses and stop attacking women's rights. That they should have to hold their noses to do so tells me just how low they've sunk.

Ha!

Eat. A big slice of cake will make everything ok except my waistline

That may be so Danger but I still maintain that brexit is the most important issue so while I will continue to push parties to change policies on other issues I will vote in any election in the immediate future on brexit.

I've said the same to ds1 leclerc

Maybe that's always been her plan?

The WA is shit. But next to no deal it will look fabulous

I don't. If women are being told once again that being raped is what we are here for and that men have more right to speak about our experiences than women do, and we are 'transphobic' and 'bigoted' for pointing out that men are the more violent sex and dangerous with it, then it makes no difference to our daily experiences of life whether we're in the EU or not. It'll be just as shit either way.

I never knew my grandmother. My mother spent her life tiptoeing around a bullying git of a husband. I don't care if they think I should be doing the same. My dd will have every reason to curse the day I gave birth to her and myself for doing so if I sell her out now - probably literally - to face the removal of women's rights and the return of entirely legal domestic violence and rape. It's never really gone away as it is due to the lack of any real enforcement and misogynistic 'law' and 'justice' systems.

So, we either need to reform one of the parties (a women's take over?) or get fully behind a new centrist party.
We can't just keep saying we aren't represented, we need to become what we want.

This is the problem, the remain side keep squabbling over the best, most perfect way forward, this gives strength to the Leavers.

Voting for a Tory rebel who has a chance of winning is probably a better bet than voting for a LD who hasn’t a hope and who you despise.
I’m considering rejoining LDs and making an attempt at change from the inside. But unfortunately the brand is so tarnished...

The Tory party position is Leave so one rebel is hardly worth a vote. It's far from the same as voting for a party with a policy of pushing for remain. There are no other options. Any other vote is either a vote for leave or pointless (unless, as I mentioned you live in Brighton). No vote is apathy and will be taken as tacit support for leave.

In these situations, you take the least shit option that will best promote the remain voice. Yes its shit, yes it would be lovely if we had better, but we don't.

OYBKK I find myself in the curious position of actually wanting a Labour split. There's Renew, who are new and untested. Like Mother, I think our entire system naturally corrupts anyway.

Of course, if we are talking elections in a couple of years time that's a different matter. Things will change and you could look at forming independents or new parties even. But if May calls an election now I don't see we will have time to change the system before the vote comes. We will have to work with what is there.

I’d support a new centrist party. But not one of these single issue parties that keep appearing/being proposed.

It's not about expecting remain to happen, it is about making a point that we are not all leavers Mother. Any vote for labour or tory will be seen as a vote for brexit. I will not have my vote seen as supporting leave even if there is no real chance of remain. Not voting at all will get you precisely nothing.

What makes anyone think there will be any more elections?

Anti-LibDem diatribes are down to allowing self-ID for trans M2F people? Single issue politics or what. I see the MN trans-phobics have just gone into stealth mode.

Part of why at current impasse is so many ppl enthusing what they are against & few willing to be pragmatic & state what they are for. Moaning is safe.... and achieves nothing.

{So, we either need to reform one of the parties (a women's take over?) or get fully behind a new centrist party.
We can't just keep saying we aren't represented, we need to become what we want.}

Since women outnumber men why hasn't this happened?
I don't intend to delve too deep into it as I have stuff to do, but if you remove the 'men won't let me' aspect of the discussion, which I object to on the basis that most of the women I know are not pathetic weaklings and are fully capable of achieving whatever they want.
OK kitchen cupboards would be 4 inches lower but other than that what is to really stop women doing everything they want if they really want it?