Why are people being so utterly vile?

[WrongKindOfFace]

Not on here, but online in general. I know tensions are running high, and people have very polarised viewpoints, but the level of vitriol and blatant racism is shocking. I’ve come to accept it as normal from the likes of the daily mail comments, but it’s even on Facebook - with their photo, name and place of work attached.

(And yes, before anyone says it, remainers can be pretty unpleasant calling leavers thick etc.)

Not on DM or leaver groups. Actually mostly on pro-remainer groups like Britain First. And only ever sweary nonsense not actual facts.

The point is leavers 'won' and are still unable to tell us what they want /wanted from Brexit. The leave campaign was a lie, it was illegal, and in any case the referendum was practically hosted by Ant and Dec to a jeering crowd. I do feel like being rude and vile to people who are restricting my freedom and my friends' personal safety for literally No food reason that I can see. But because I'm a civilised person, I don't do it.

The vilest things I see on SM are the posts showing British war graves and how the EU should be treating us (the current government!) like gods because many British soldiers died during the world wars. Do they not realise how many more French/Germans/Belgians/Dutch/Polish etc were affected? The world wars decimated Europe and were why the EU came about. I am disgusted when I see such things.

I found the 'queue jumpers' and 'citizens of nowhere stuff' more upsetting personally because it came from someone in power.

I live in a high remain area and one of my best friends voted to leave...."you'll be fine. You are married " was her response.

I have a number of friends across the divide.... some remain, some leave. I have refused to ask my family (who I strongly suspect are leavers) as last time one of them posted some racist crap, I refused to talk to them for about 4 months.

The leavers I know are all pretty clever people; however, when asked on WHY they voted leave, all I got back was general aspects "EU Bureaucracy ", "Too many immigrants from Poland - we have shops that only speak Polish now!!" and "I wanted to take back control"

For the latter one, I asked him to expand n which deal he would prefer - cue waffling about Norway. When I explained that was exactly the opposite of what he wanted, he went into a huff, and started talking about Canada ++. SO... I asked what the "++" was.... no idea.

These are not stupid people.. they are pretty clever, but like many people, they sadly do not think through impacts of choices. My personal view is that they have become so used to comfort (food, roof, warmth) that they remain convinced that this is the norm, and will always continue, that "they" (the Government) will make sure it DOES carry on.

Much much sadness

www.ft.com/content/cef81570-a591-11e8-926a-7342fe5e173f
Here is an informed article about why farmers voted for Brexit.

@millyonth
Did you see Apileofballyhoo’s additional information from the article you cited? Has it changed your mind on the issue of EU immigrantion at all?

@CatnissEverdene
We all have our own points of view. Different doesn't mean wrong...

Well, not really. For a simple example, claiming 2+2=5 does mean your wrong. Many of the Leave campaign claims (eg “easiest deal in history”) are the equivalent of stating that Huddersfield are going to win the premier league. Many of the predictions dismissed as project fear have a similar weight to a claim that Liverpool or Man City will win the league.

Just heard JRM on LBC. Posh boy voice etc etc then says "£39bn is a ransom for our freedom ". The irresponsible piece of shit that he is.

A lot of people quietly held hateful views and Brexit has given them the perception that it's acceptable to start voicing them everywhere. They think Brexit is a licence to go back to the 1970s and that they have some kind of cultural mandate to make everything less multicultural/modern/equal.

That, combined with a fear that they might be proved to be fools, which makes people defensive and rude.

The whole thing is in truth about the impact of a different arrangement of international trade law, which almost no one knows anything about, but it's couched in terms about identity and history and community. That's why people argue about it with very little reference to actual reality. Which is that leaving the EU is stupid in trading terms.

The point I was making about the man who isn’t British born, was that he made a shitty decision like that from only being here 10 years because of greed without looking at the bigger picture, compared to someone like me who was born here and knows the country’s politics and can make a generally good guess at the effects of a political decision. One of my other colleagues told me that a lot of his friends (also non-EU immigrants who now have British status) also voted leave for the same reason, so it would be harder for others in their country to come over. I don’t understand where they heard and were sold this stuff! The hilarious thing is that my colleague who voted leave is making his big buck and then will go back to his home country to live. This is his long term plan that he often shared with me. So it’s ok to mess up a country and then fuck off at the end of it and leave the ones who don’t have anywhere else to go. Brilliant!

This referendum should never have happened. It was completely idiotic to put the country’s welfare in the hands of the “people”. If the leaders of our country don’t have a clue about Brexit then how the hell do you expect the people to know what was going to happen!

The attitude of leavers towards remainders reminds me of my ex husband. He didn't want to be married. He behaved in a way that left us with no way to continue in the marriage. He repeatedly told me he should never have married me, that I forced him into it. When I finally ended the marriage and it became apparent that he'd have to move out and he'd have far less money and things would be a bit shit for him decided it was all my fault and to this day ten years on still blames me for everything.

This will get much worse once reality is kicks in.

{ "£39bn is a ransom for our freedom ". }
Those bastards at the supermarket demanded money as I wheeled my full shopping trolley out'.
Same argument.

Indistinct @millyonth Did you seeApileofballyhoo’s additional information from the article you cited? Has it changed your mind on the issue of EU immigrantion at all?

I'm not anti-immigration. I read the article and believe it is all true. I was just defending the man (who was not born here)'s right to vote Leave and hold the opinion that uncontrolled FoM pushes up housing costs. Which is common sense and also factually correct. FoM is hugely problematic in some areas. It's not racist or stupid or ignorant to acknowledge that.

@SonEtLumiere the outcome is an uncertainty for sure, at this point no one knows exactly how anyone may be affected, and everybody's circumstances are different. Whilst the proposal for brexit Deal or no deal may not be one that suits you, that is not necessarily the case for everyone.
I don't believe anyone made their vote thinking they would be damaging the country, whilst I'm the first to admit there were lies for the leave campaign, I fully stand by my decision.
It's very irritating to keep being told it's our fault the country is going to shit, and the abuse shown to leavers is disgusting. People made their decisions based on the knowledge they had to hand at the time. I made my decision based on my own personal feelings and circumstances, and that has not changed. I do not berate people for their decisions and don't expected to be berated for mine.

don't expected to be berated for mine

But you don't control what other people think and say, fortunately.

why are people being so vile

Because almost everyone is unhappy. Remainers for obvious reasons, leavers because it’s going so badly.

I guess it’s conceivable that the country will recover economically, but I don’t think it ever will emotionally.

Of the people I know (and have asked) o would say there’s about a 75:25 split remain to leave. The leavers I know are all wealthy, without exception. Quite how Brexit came to be viewed as a victory for the working class is beyond me.

I don't berate people for their opinions unless the practical application of those opinions completely changes for the worse my way of life, my children's way of life, and the way of life of most people in the country. Opinion is of no use if it disregards researched and properly supported predictions. I would never be a leaver because I want to be European but I would suck it up if there was a) a proper majority 'mandate' to leave b) any indication things are not going to be much shitter than they are now when we do.

At this point no one knows what will happen! A prediction is just that, it is not fact, nothing is conclusive yet. Not sure of the need to get so up in arms over a situation that is A. out of your control and B. not finalised? As for peoples opinions affecting you way of life, is this not something that occurs in everyday life anyway?

I don't want to control what anyone else thinks but I do feel it unnecessary to tell people they are wrong for the way they voted because you don't agree with the decision.

People do know quite a lot of things that will happen, based on existing law. So for example I know already that I will no longer have an automatic right to live in the same country as my children after Brexit.

I don't berate leavers in RL about their opinions, but it's odd to suggest that people should be allowed to express opinions that you don't like on a discussion board. I do tend to tone down my contempt for leavers when posting on here though

Out of my control - that's what is so anger making
Not yet finalised. Ditto. There's 2 months to go.

And no. People's opinions don't usually affect my way of life. Not forever. At the most for 5 years and not in such a unilateral way (and anyway had the majority in a general election been what it was in the referendum there would be a hung parliament).

We are a laughing stock internationally. Businesses are moving their production sites elsewhere. Economically it's predicted - not with a crystal ball but with evidence - to be a bogflush. So I don't respect your opinion and what's more - I don't have to! You won, love! Get over it snowflake!

Layton
So you only know as far as nine years ago in this country.
You are the one talking shit

I tend to value the opinions of people who have detailed knowledge and information to back up their assertions over those who base their opinions on "personal feelings" or the lies peddled by a bunch of self interested racists who ran the Leave campaign.

Not all opinions are created equal and it isn't offensive to question other people's opinions.

I'm surrounded by Leavers. Thick racist twats who also vote Tory in an area with huge deprivation
What was that you were saying OP? It's the Leavers doing most of the insulting? Not on Mumsnet it's not. It's the Labour-voting Remainers....

So it’s ok to mess up a country and then fuck off at the end of it and leave the ones who don’t have anywhere else to go. Brilliant!

This is how I feel about a British born nephew, who left the country as a six year old, but still retains a British passport. Came back for a one year work placement, voted Leave, and cleared off again. It wasn't his original choice to leave the UK; it was his to clear off again, and not commit to the country he wants out of the EU. Meanwhile EU citizen friends who have lived and worked and paid taxes here for 30 years, get no say at all, and now face uncertain futures. Forgive me if I feel angry.

I voted remain however I am not so blinkered as to see there isn't nasty, horrible things being said by both sides.

This idea that remainers are all paragons of viture and leavers are all horrible and nasty is untrue, childish and a little pathetic.

This idea that remainers are all paragons of viture and leavers are all horrible and nasty is untrue, childish and a little pathetic.
I agree Witches