Can I ask a question about a "hard border"

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Forgive me if this has been done before or if it's a stupid question.

If there is no deal we are told there will be a hard border.

Leo Varadkar has said they will not be policing a hard border.
The UK doesn't want a hard border.

So who exactly is going to come along and build checkpoints?

Is it changing your views in any way?

I've learnt that leavers don't like the backstop but they want the backstop as long as you don't call it the backstop.

I've learned that you can't reason with these loons so holding firm to keep the backstop is the best way to save GFA.

It's true what they say, a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

"A little knowledge" may be a vast overestimate.

This is the weirdest brexit conversation ever.

It's really not. Not even close.

in fairness Fishes there has been a lot of competition 😋

I'll carry right on quoting your posts if I want, it's up to you whether you engage or not.

Quote my posts by all means. Don't make up downright lies about me though

This is the issue with the backstop.

The backstop means the whole of the UK will remain in the EU customs union, while Northern Ireland will have to follow single market rules. Brexit supporters loathe the backstop, fearing it will leave the UK “shackled” to EU rules. Wary EU countries think the plan benefits the UK, so insisted the UK respect EU social and environmental rules to to avoid undercutting their companies.

But if the technological solution to the border is just around the corner as ERG/No Dealers claim then we don't need the backstop.
Maybe they are full of shit. Just a thought.

The backstop means the whole of the UK will remain in the EU customs union, while Northern Ireland will have to follow single market rules. Brexit supporters loathe the backstop, fearing it will leave the UK “shackled” to EU rules. Wary EU countries think the plan benefits the UK, so insisted the UK respect EU social and environmental rules to to avoid undercutting their companies.

Weetabix, it was the UK that demanded the backstop should apply to the whole country. It was actually negotiated IN. The EU agreed to this with significant reservations - they wanted it to apply only to address the particular difficulties faced in NI/ROI.

But as Bellini says, if technology can solve the border then what is the harm in retaining it? No one wants to depend on it, not even Ireland. It is literally an insurance policy.

Imagine the scenario if it was taken out or some arbitrary date was applied for its ending and no technical solution existed - what then for NI/RoI?

{Can I ask - Is anyone (from beyond NI/ROI) learning anything new from this thread. Is it changing your views in any way?}
Not really learning anything new but it highlights the fact that so many know bugger all about the 'real world'.
There has to be a backstop as the UK government have proven they can't be trusted.
Free movement of people between NI and Ireland must continue as it does now.
Regarding having passports checked when moving between countries, will be down to perceived 'risks' and that in many respects people will be checked by less obtrusive means. You need ID to get on a flight. This usually means you do not need to show ID again for onward travel although some places will check. I am fairly sure everyone in mainland Europe has to carry ID although rarely asked to show it. Thus for travelling France to Switzerland it will be presumed you have ID and unlikely to be a threat unless intelligence suggests otherwise.

UK voted to leave the EU. The only real way to do that while fulfilling their obligations under the GFA is to have the border in the Irish Sea. This would inevitably been what would have been agreed if May had not called the election and become dependent on the DUP.

It is worth noting that no 'tech border' solution has been found by any of the other countries with a land border and the resources and motivation to find a workable solution, eg Canada, Switzerland etc. We're not going to find one down the back of the sofa.

We need to revoke A50 and stop this stupidity. There is nothing to gain and a huge amount to lose from Brexit.

Where has the OP gone?

Every tech solution they have come up with so far creates some kind of physical infrastructure even just an ANPR camera. Not GFA compliant.

To the pp who asked is anyone learning anything, definitely yes!! I'm on half a dozen threads and spend hours every day and into the night, reading, reading, reading. I listen to and watch political programmes constantly. As someone said in another thread a few weeks back, you feel you have made progress with your understanding and then it all starts to slide through your fingers again like water. I'm hoping some of it sticks. I'm a staunch remainer and still am so not sure if all leavers are the same as me, learning more but not budging?

All the opinion polls show that ~65% of NI people would accept a sea border rather than a land border. I presume you believe in respecting the wishes of the people of NI?

Giving people two bad options and asking them which is the least bad is not the same as asking them what what they want!

One option to resolve this is a NI-only referendum on the backstop (not on reunification) but just where the customs border would lie.

And wouldn’t that just make it so easy for GB govt! Pass the buck. Ask NI which hand they want to use to clean up the turd we left on their living room floor. Absolutely disgusting that anyone would think that was the solution to this problem.

That would be a double win for GB govt. 1)pass the buck, avoid having to make the decision 2) when it goes wrong get to say “that’s what you voted for NI! This is what you wanted. Nothing to do with us.

For me, the outrage in England about the EU 'imposing the backstop' typifies how low the UK has sunk.

Not only are they not trusted to keep to the terms of their own agreement, the internationally ratified GFA / Belfast Agreement, they are actively refusing to be held to that agreement , wanting instead to abolish the backstop, put a time limit on it or do something else.

And then spin it as the EU imposing / the EU refusing ...

What is life going to be like when there is no EU to blame for everything from bendy bananas ?

That is a frightening question finally

Can I ask - Is anyone (from beyond NI/ROI) learning anything new from this thread. Is it changing your views in any way?

Well, not really related to this particular thread BUT i know (at least) 2 hard core brexitiers, dyed in the wool ones, anti FOM, pro make britain great again ones..... in the last few days BOTH have changed to Remain, they are now scared of no-deal, believe it will be a disaster, love their country and think its gone too far now.... both mitigate their change of heart with "we were lied too, not our fault Gov!"

Well, not really related to this particular thread BUT i know (at least) 2 hard core brexitiers, dyed in the wool ones, anti FOM, pro make britain great again ones..... in the last few days BOTH have changed to Remain, they are now scared of no-deal, believe it will be a disaster, love their country and think its gone too far now.... both mitigate their change of heart with "we were lied too, not our fault Gov!"

As long as they change their mind I wouldn't care what mitigation they use. And to be fair they were lied to.

I really want people to understand the reality in NI. I want leavers to understand that this is not a made up thing or simply an extra line of argument for Remainers. I want to improve people's understanding. Many leave voters are reasonable people who respond to reasoned arguments, they are the ones I'd like to think are listening/reading.

I’m a remainer

I know some staunch Brexiteers

I like reading threads like this, as I spend quite a long time talking about NI/I with people who don’t want to admit that they know nothing about it and don’t care. Threads like this give me the information I need. Thank you all.

If I had a pound for everytime I’ve heard someone say ‘but we don’t negotiate we terrorists’ like they’ve just walked out of designated survivor, I’d have a new coffee machine.

*with terrorists

We are told brexit cannot be cancelled because it will play into the hands of the far right but undermining the GFA and risking a return to violence is apparently a price worth paying. If it happens - completely the fault of the perpetrators nothing to do with those who ignorantly poked the hornets nest.

Brexit (outside of the WA) treats the GFA recklessly.