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Brexit
Original poster

Can I ask a question about a "hard border"

382 replies

StartedEarly · 30/01/2019 13:08

Forgive me if this has been done before or if it's a stupid question.

If there is no deal we are told there will be a hard border.

Leo Varadkar has said they will not be policing a hard border.
The UK doesn't want a hard border.

So who exactly is going to come along and build checkpoints?

OP posts:
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5
Weetabixandshreddies · 31/01/2019 08:23

Mistigri

The backstop allows the EU to tie the UK in indefinitely. That is what I am against. The EU being able to unilaterally decide the future of the UK.

And please address your accusation that you made. Either back it up or retract it.

HappyHugs · 31/01/2019 08:23

Weetabix I was simply presenting another option. You were using NI to tie GB to the EU, I’m just saying you could decide which issue matters more a ‘United Kingdom’ or sovereignty from the EU.

The compromise might as well be yours as mine.

newroundhere · 31/01/2019 08:30

*Travelling throughout EU we've driven backwards and forwards across borders with no one even their to check passports so how do they know if I am a criminal on the run?

Simply for security I think borders should be maintained.*

So weetabix, you do believe there should be a hard border between the NI and Ireland?

Mistigri · 31/01/2019 08:30

A customs union ties the U.K. to the EU permanently.

You say you want a customs union.

The backstop is a customs union.

Do you see the problem?

Mistigri · 31/01/2019 08:34

In fact, just as there is no physical way to prevent the U.K. reneging on its commitments under the GFA, there is no physical way to prevent the U.K. from exiting the backstop.

The consequences in both cases would be very unpalatable but no one could stop the U.K. doing it.

Weetabixandshreddies · 31/01/2019 08:44

So weetabix, you do believe there should be a hard border between the NI and Ireland?
Only in as much as I think there should be 1 between every country. NI/ROI could be an exception though if everyone was checked on arrival on the island. They could then travel around unchecked because it would be easy to monitor.

jasjas1973 · 31/01/2019 08:45

Except that they don't. I have travelled to the EU and back, Just been waived through without even a glance at passports

You've just made that up.

Weetabixandshreddies · 31/01/2019 08:45

Mistigri

Until you retract your accusation against me I refuse to engage with you any further.

jasjas1973 · 31/01/2019 08:47

NI/ROI could be an exception though if everyone was checked on arrival on the island

........which is totally unacceptable to the DUP

Weetabixandshreddies · 31/01/2019 08:47

jasjas1973

I absolutely have not. We've never once been checked at the French/Swiss border. The border wasn't even manned.

We've travelled between the UK and France many times. Passports checked only a very few times.

Weetabixandshreddies · 31/01/2019 08:48

.....which is totally unacceptable to the DUP

Well, they don't rule the world. We don't have to do as they say.

MamMamMam · 31/01/2019 08:51

I live very close to the boarder. I grew up in NI and now live in ROI with dh and dc's.

This is a snap shot off the last 24 hours in our house.

7am dh leave for work on NI

10am i go to mums in NI because I haven't seen my sick dn in two weeks because hes been ill

12.30 I travelled home to ROI

6PM dh travels home from work. He collects my dm on the way. She doesn't drive. He takes her her to visit her sister, my aunt. My aunt drops her to my house and I take her home to NI which is a few miles up the road.

7am dh went to work

At the weekend ds attends rugby training in NI. Thursday evening dd attends brownies in NI.

my mum looks after my ds's if their ill and I'm working.

We travel roads which during the troubles would have been deemed illegal roads.

If these roads are closed with a hard boarder it will add 30 mins to my trips to mums and affect our lives beyond recognition

HappyHugs · 31/01/2019 08:53

That’s a border in the Irish Sea you’re describing Weetabix. I’d be happy with that too. For everything

jasjas1973 · 31/01/2019 08:54

Your experience is against everything me and my friends have experienced travelling through many different ports and airports, in recent years - 3 or 4 trips per year.

8 or 10 years ago, things were quite a bit more ad hoc, i'll grant you.

Schengen area is completely different and irrelevant to us, criminality is an issue and is apparently dealt with by intelligence led policing.

Weetabixandshreddies · 31/01/2019 08:56

jasjas1973

Airports are different. I'm talking about sea ports and land borders.

Mistigri · 31/01/2019 08:57

Until you retract your accusation against me I refuse to engage with you any further.

I'm on a public talk board posting opinions. I'll carry right on quoting your posts if I want, it's up to you whether you engage or not.

jasjas1973 · 31/01/2019 08:57

.....which is totally unacceptable to the DUP

Well, they don't rule the world. We don't have to do as they say

so what will the UVF etc do about that? just as a border infuriates the nationalists, a border in the Irish Sea infuriates the Loyalists...... who started the recent troubles in late 60s.

T. May doesn't want a GE and thats exactly what would happen if she ignored the DUP.

Mistigri · 31/01/2019 09:00

There is some confusion here between borders for trade purposes and borders for people purposes.

Travelling inside the Schengen zone eg France to Switzerland doesn't usually require passport checks for people.

But because there is a customs border between France and Switzerland, there are customs formalities for people transporting goods.

It's quite shocking that people still don't understand that.

Mistigri · 31/01/2019 09:02

NI/ROI could be an exception though if everyone was checked on arrival on the island. They could then travel around unchecked because it would be easy to monitor.

You're literally describing the ... backstop.

bellinisurge · 31/01/2019 09:13

GFA keeps all the worst instincts of DUP in check. Given that they have few good instincts, they hate it and want to destroy it. And the Tories aren't jumping on them because they (the Tories) are desperate to stay in government. And Corbyn is a load of shite so he's no help either.
Perfect fucking storm of shite.

jasjas1973 · 31/01/2019 09:28

To be fair to Corbyn, his policy of a CU and close followin the of SM, would mean the ROI /NI is largely irrelevant.

It is Mays insistence on an independent trade policy that is the issue here.

Rumours are May will end up signing up to a version of Labours policy.

HappyHugs · 31/01/2019 09:40

NI/ROI could be an exception though if everyone was checked on arrival on the island. They could then travel around unchecked because it would be easy to monitor.

That's the definition of a border in the Irish sea Weetabix. You're advocating it for the movement of people but opposing it for the movement of goods.

HappyHugs · 31/01/2019 09:49

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jan/31/ireland-hard-border-brexit-backstop-good-friday-agreement?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

Please anyone who genuinely wants to learn why it’s such a crucial issue read this article. She’s describing a childhood we all endured and speaks for those who still live along the border.

Can I ask - Is anyone (from beyond NI/ROI) learning anything new from this thread. Is it changing your views in any way?

Mistigri · 31/01/2019 09:57

You're advocating it for the movement of people but opposing it for the movement of goods.

This is the weirdest brexit conversation ever.

Leaver opposes backstop for reasons that have yet to be revealed, while simultaneously proposing a solution that is the same as the backstop.

bellinisurge · 31/01/2019 09:58

Perhaps Theresa May is posting.