Can I ask a question about a "hard border"

[StartedEarly]

Forgive me if this has been done before or if it's a stupid question.

If there is no deal we are told there will be a hard border.

Leo Varadkar has said they will not be policing a hard border.
The UK doesn't want a hard border.

So who exactly is going to come along and build checkpoints?

Even his/her curse words of choice - and the way in which she/he uses them - is completely off.
And referring to the slightly bigger island as the mainland.

Walkingdead

Whether you or your family are from NI is neither here nor there. When I asked what you based your opinion that UK govt cared about NI I was looking for evidence because the only evidence I have demonstrates the opposite. We even have a Secretary of State who openly stated that she didn’t know that unionist in NI didn’t vote for nationalist parties and vice versa!!! And Dominic Rabb has merely ‘dipped in and out’ of the succinct 40page GFA. I am sure other posters could supply any amount of additional evidence.

If you (and the Brexiteers in govt) believe that leaving with no deal will no detrimental impact on NI/ROI then why on earth would you subsequently commit to investing in new technology?! And I say ‘invest heavily’ because there is no way the sort of high tech, currently non existent tech solution will be possible on the cheap.

But ultimately the entire problem is one of trust. Ireland does not trust the UK Govt, not do most people in NI (and I count unionists in that) to do right by NI.

It would also appear that the UK govt does not trust Ireland. That is why the GFA includes the independent and honest brokerage of the EU and USA.

Walking dead
{1) The political reason: it is a Trojan horse to stop Brexit.
2) The reality is it can be used to separate N.I. from the rest of the UK and closer to R.O.I. Obviously something a lot of people in the UK are VERY against.
3) There is no guarantee it will only be in place for a short time. It could actually be used indefinitely.
4) Its is likely to be the basis for a permanent position.
5) Because it could be in place indefinitely, the EU could use it to dictate/control the UK, to our detriment and their advantage.}

Are you getting treatment for your paranoia?

The underlying theme of the EU is to provide the best life experience for all it's members. It is hampered in that it is NOT in total control, so individual sovereign countries distort the plan somewhat. The 'regeneration funds' that the UK has benefited from would not exist if the EU didn't care.
There is a scheme for FREE train travel for youngsters (18-25?) so they can travel to other EU destinations to visit 2 or 3 European cities/areas.
The EU want the UK to be a strong EU member and player, they are sad that it wants to leave but they can't and won't stop it. Once out, the gloves will come off and the UK will get the same tough negotiating treatment that the EU uses with the USA and Russia, no concessions unless it suits the EU, as you would expect.

{I am extremely untechnical but assume that even if the lorries could somehow be scanned from the outside or with robotics,}
Some lorries are scanned, principally the ones arriving in Dover that did not start their journeys in the EU, so Eastern Russia/Ukraine perhaps. It takes 20 minutes per vehicle and it does not cover all the aspects that a 'border' entails, so there is at least a physical check as well. The scan 'shows' that there are no hidden voids in the load where 'other' things could be hiding.

There is a scheme for FREE train travel for youngsters (18-25?) so they can travel to other EU destinations to visit 2 or 3 European cities/areas.

There is? How do we not all know about this? My son did a teaching exchange trip to Europe 2 years ago from uni - we had to pay his fare. Why did uni (which participate in Erasmus) not know about this?

Aah not quite as it seems. It is a competition to win one of 15,000 tickets (100,000 people entered). So not quite as you portrayed it @1tisILeClerc is it? Also seems only to apply to 18 year olds (I checked the EPP site for this too)

This summer, 1,900 British 18-year-olds will be travelling across Europe without having to spend a penny on travel.

The lucky teenagers - who are among 15,000 winners from across the continent - entered an online competition run by the EU to boost Europe's image.

From the BBC website.

{There is? How do we not all know about this? My son did a teaching exchange trip to Europe 2 years ago from uni - we had to pay his fare. Why did uni (which participate in Erasmus) not know about this?
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Weetabixandshreddies Fri 01-Feb-19 10:24:17

Aah not quite as it seems. It is a competition to win one of 15,000 tickets (100,000 people entered). So not quite as you portrayed it @1tisILeClerc is it? Also seems only to apply to 18 year olds (I checked the EPP site for this too)}

So, you want to blame me for your ignorance?
I believe the EP are pushing to extend the scheme further in future. Of course it relies on having cash to do this.
What a pity the fuckwits who voted leave are causing the whole of Europe to fork out billions unnecessarily, so probably restricting the offers.
The upside is that there won't be any UK youngsters eligible next year, so more Europeans will benefit. Well done.

Not blaming you at all apart from your blatant misrepresentation of the facts. It is in fact a competition for 18 year olds, massively over subscribed and not a benefit given out to all 18 - 25 year olds as you alluded to.

Interestingly enough it states that the winners are decided by a panel. I wonder what the criteria is for winning?

There's certainly not 'at least a physical check as well'. An x-ray is one of the physical checks which are performed on the 2-4% of non-EU freight that's actually checked. It's not true to say that all non-EU freight is x-rayed, nor is it true that consignments which are x-rayed are necessarily subject to any other checks.

The Tories are definitely willing to throw NI to the wolves.

Why on earth would any responsible government trigger Article 50 when a part of its territory doesn't even have a government (ie the Northern Irish Assembly)? Sorting that out should have been the top priority!

{Interestingly enough it states that the winners are decided by a panel. I wonder what the criteria is for winning?}
You have just researched it, maybe you could tell us rather than expecting everyone else to do your homework.
There is also Interrail, a heavily subsidised travel scheme across Europe.

Fishes.
The 'rules' are as now. When the UK leaves the WTO rules are I believe that a far higher percentage must be properly checked.
I presume that intelligence and 'trusted trader' schemes also play a part in how many vehicles are checked at present.

1tisILeClerc

Well no. You are the one praising the EU for offering 18 - 25 year olds free train travel around Europe when actually it's only for 18 year olds, there are only 12000 (possibly 15 000 this year and 100 000 people applied) it's awarded via a competition and the rules are unclear.

This is Inter rail tickets actually.

So not really the great give away that you actually proclaimed at all.

Weetabixandshreddies
Trying to give a damn about an 'internet random' but failing.

Somerville
And no way does s/he have an Irish parent. The thinly veiled superiority is palpable

When the UK leaves the WTO rules are I believe that a far higher percentage must be properly checked.

No, because anything that's coming from outside the EU now is already traded on those exact same WTO rules. The rules that we will have to apply to EU imports in future can be no more onerous than the rules we currently apply to non-EU imports.

Indeed, Mavis.
Wonder how his/her parent would respond to GRMA?

Somerville Mavis
Regarding walkingdeadfangirl being from NI - have you tried using the power of imagination? I tried it last night and if you really, really try, really, really hard it's just the same as reality.

{No, because anything that's coming from outside the EU now is already traded on those exact same WTO rules}
From outside, yes, but when the UK leaves it all becomes 'outside'.

Weetabix I grew up with bomb scares and the constant threat of terror attacks. Actually far more then than post 9/11. I feel that the general public in GB have forgotten about it, in fact there is a whole generation who have grown up since the GFA who quite frankly have no idea of the recent history of Ireland.

Just another example of Brexiteers ignorance
I voted remain. But if had had chosen to vote leave I wouldn't have thought about the Irish border. It never entered my head that it was relevant, it wasn't a factor in my decision. I don't remember a single mention of it during the referendum campaign.

Irish border mentioned regularly on here.

No, because anything that's coming from outside the EU now is already traded on those exact same WTO rules. The rules that we will have to apply to EU imports in future can be no more onerous than the rules we currently apply to non-EU imports.

No it isn't. Most UK imports come from the EU or countries with which we have an FTA via the EU. We do very little trade on WTO rules but what we do is based on EU schedules and tariffs. Post no deal brexit we'll have no FTAs with anyone and no WTO schedules or tariffs.

StartedEarly

I wasn't in NI but I did grow up in London during this time. We were there were the Harrods bombing happened. We grew up aware that we had to watch out for suspect packages and unattended bags. Our school received several bomb threats (they were hoaxes but they treated seriously, such was the level of threat). I do remember what it was like. No, I don't know how it was for those of you in NI because I wasn't there.

But we still do live with very real terrorist threats in London now. It's not that there is no understanding.

Which I acknowledged.

whosafraid

You're right in what you say. I understand the general sense of unease that may have existed across GB during the troubles, the occasional bombscares, the odd bomb. I understand because I imagine its the general sense we all now have post 9/11 and the various attacks in major cities.

Living through the day-to-day experiences which, to all intents and purposes was a war, is a whole different thing. Events happened on your doorstep every day of your life, bombs, shootings, abductions, school was affected, transport was affected, community events were affected. You watched what you said and how you spoke. The school you attended, the clothes you wore, the sports you played, every little thing had the potential to identify you and put you at risk.

It shapes the very fabric of who you are, and who you become. It affects, among other things, your response to risk, your relationships, your mental health and your attitudes to authority. It gets under your skin in ways you will never be able to define or articulate. Who knows the extent to which we have become something different than we would otherwise have been.

It's not that people intend to sound as though they are undermining it by comparing it to their occasional memory of a bomb scare, its just that they have no other point of reference.

I would do anything I could to avoid shattering the GFA and bring our country to its knees like that again.