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Brexit

Westminstenders: Waiting for a Valentines Miracle

995 replies

RedToothBrush · 29/01/2019 23:50

Guess what folks, we get to do it all over again for Valentine's Day!

Bet you are all looking forward to that.

May has already been told by the EU its a non-starter, and with there being a vote scheduled again in a fortnight, there is little incentive for the EU to shift. And every incentive to just let us stew and think things over.

We are trying to renege on what we signed up to with the Withdrawal Agreement. Which only proves the EU needs the Backstop. Our credibility as a nation to do deals with is shot through the floor. With everyone but those who think they can stitch us up at least.

There is one key development with the latest vote:

The emergence of a new Brexit voting block within Labour, I believe led by Carole Flint. They are supporting Brexit and are prepared to vote with the government and against the Labour Whip.

This negates the Tory Rebel block, meaning May has a majority if she has the ERG on board - this being a big if, of course.

Many other potential rebels who threatened to quit from government, were detered from doing so by a promise from May and the promise that they had another show down on the 14th they could use to block No Deal.

In not quiting they are showing they are committed to some deal brokered by May and not an alternative by Parliament. This is important. There may be no realistic opportunity for anything else to be realistically be tabled by anyone else now.

I don't think they will quit now, if they can see a potential deal present itself.

The way forward now looks to be the Withdrawal Agreement or No Deal only. Keep this in mind and in focus. This will become an increasing pressure and increasingly definitive. Revoke is still on the table, but I just can't see May doing it. Ever.

Whether May can get the EU to back down on the backstop seems unlikely. Its going to be more backwards and forwards on it. Before it becomes obvious its going nowhere. Its just theatre.

What the ERG do next is important. My best guess is they will split into No Deal Hardliners and last minute WA Compromisers. This will leave May short of a majority, but not as far as she has been especially with Labour resolve weakening. I think she may yet get her deal over the line with Labour support of some sort. Probably unofficial rather than direct from public instruction the front bench.

Here's the logic: Corbyn has said he will now discuss matter with her. He still wants to pin Brexit on her and destroy her, but he still wants Brexit and he still wants to keep the Labour Party together despite its differences over Brexit. All without making a clear Labour policy. How does he do this?

The same way he handled the Immigration Bill is possibly the best guess. Plus how can he stop his rebels...? {innocent face emojy} He gets to look tough against May outwardly and make lots of Remainy noises without more outward support for a particular policy. Those awful stupid Northerner MP (or MPs from backward towns if you live in the Metropolian North) who know nothing and screwed Remainia. It plays people off along splits in society, in the hope they don't notice Corbyn really orchestrated it. His MPs in leave areas get to look Leave without consequence, and if it all goes wrong he still get to pin it on May. Thus saving his marginals in both the North and the South 'cos those evil Tories'. And he does stop No Deal in the process. Yes, call me cynical, but thats how he could try and game it. Ultimately Corbyn and May do have certain aligned mutual interests, afterall.

And given there are few alternatives now there apart from Revoke or No Deal, once you think it through doesn't seem as far fetched as it initally sounds. Corbyn certainly seems to have form for it. His priorities are his Party, managing his north / south cultural divide and being seen to kick the Tories.

It'll go to the wire whatever happens, and its hard to see many ways out of this now. We are running out of time, opportunities and options. Of course, this works for May and has been her plan for some time. The question is merely, if she is serious about preventing no deal (and I believe she is) how she persuades either the ERG or Labour to back her.

Afterall, after the WA is done and dusted there is still everything to play for.

OP posts:
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Member745520 · 31/01/2019 20:09

@BiglyBadgers

I think that would tickle me too!

SusanWalker · 31/01/2019 20:10

I have no ancestral assets at all. I have been researching my family tree. I am back to mid 1800s on all branches and they all come from the middle swathe of the UK. Northampton, Peterborough, Birmingham, Coventry, Evesham, Skipton. Apart from one lady who came from Essex. I have relatives on my mum and dad's side who came from the same place. I'm waiting for the branches to cross at some point. I think I must have the dullest tree ever. If I was a celebrity they'd turn me down for who do you think you are on the principle of dullness.

RosinaAlmaviva · 31/01/2019 20:15

Best for Britain are collecting signatures for an open letter about the impact of Brexit, to be printed in local papers:

www.bestforbritain.org/to-the-editor?utm_campaign=local_paper_letter_1&utm_medium=email&utm_source=b4b

Sorry if this was already posted, thread moves fast!

ElenadeClermont · 31/01/2019 20:17

My favourite Hungarian news portal summarised Tuesday's Parliamentary proceedings with a quote from Monty Python and the Holy Grail. It is not in the original version, but the Hungarian translation (which everyone knows by heart) has the French shouting insults after King Arthur as they are making a not too dignified retreat: "Stupid English, English stupid. "

Icantreachthepretzels · 31/01/2019 20:22

I'm waiting for the branches to cross at some point. I think I must have the dullest tree ever. If I was a celebrity they'd turn me down for who do you think you are on the principle of dullness

It's OK - I've got you beat Grin my aunty (lives in New Hampshire) sent her DNA off to one of those companies that test it - they knew nothing about her except she lived on the U.S.A east coast. When her results came back showing her geographical DNA profile there was a large bullseye over the tiny North West English village she was born in and then a paler haze spreading from Chester all the way to distant distant Warrington. These results showed the spread of her (and therefore my mum's) ancestry for the last 2000 years

... so it's pretty fancy talk having family that comes from Birmingham and Essex. Get you!

BiglyBadgers · 31/01/2019 20:23

Oh wait! I've just remembered I've got an aunt and uncle in Australia! Maybe they would sponsor a visa request. I think I've only met them once at a funeral though.

borntobequiet · 31/01/2019 20:23

Susan my ancestry is very varied (mostly Irish) but I was born and brought up in the part of England your family is from, and now (somewhat to my surprise) I’m living here again. I actually have a deep attachment to it and think that the landscapes of the rural Midlands and West Midlands are greatly underrated! (George Eliot describes it very well particularly in Middlemarch and The Mill on the Floss.)

PostNotInHaste · 31/01/2019 20:27

The anti German sentiment that is back out in the open has really upset me the last couple of days and stirred up childhood memories that I look at through the eyes of an adult and realise I never felt I totally fitted in due to my German Mother. Can’t bear the idea of it being back in the open and DH has agreed that we should explore our options in Germany with a view to going in a few years time after DS has finished school. My cousin over there clearly doesn’t actually know what to say to me at the moment, she’s horrified by what she is reading and I do have think she can quite believe we’re having to stockpile insulin. Neither can I.

Destiel · 31/01/2019 20:28

Common as muck, me :)

BiglyBadgers · 31/01/2019 20:29

Member745520

I think that would tickle me too!

I'm glad it's not just me. Sometimes my sense of humour can be a little odd. Grin

umpteennamechanges · 31/01/2019 20:30

@borntobequiet I'm from a rural part of the West Midlands....

umpteennamechanges · 31/01/2019 20:31

Originally I mean (I live in Hampshire now), parents are still in the same house we moved into when I was 14 though.

SusanWalker · 31/01/2019 20:42

I've got Middlemarch on my waiting to be read pile. I shall have to move it up nearer the top.

I actually quite like the thought that my ancestors were farming away in the rural midlands for centuries. But it would be quite fun to have just one branch from slightly further afield.

BestIsWest · 31/01/2019 20:42

Been researching my and DH’s families. Both families came to where we live now 100 years ago via various routes but both originated from two villages half a mile apart in the Forest of Dean 150 years ago. We also each have a branch from neighbouring villages in west Wales. I keep expecting to find a link.

SingingBabooshkaBadly · 31/01/2019 20:44

I have an Italian Great Grandfather. This, in theory, makes me eligible for Italian citizenship. In fact, I’m told (maybe DG can confirm) that if you can trace an ancestor back even as far as the unification of Italy then you are considered Italian. Problem is you need extensive documentary proof, which I can’t trace. I’ve seen a record of my great grandparents’ marriage but can find no record of GGF before that. It’s so frustrating. Uncles and second cousins can’t tell me much. It was all very hush hush - because of the war I assume. Sadly, GGF died in an internment camp.

But, I’m thinking there’s a good chance some other Westministenders have an Italian ancestor if they go back far enough?

DGRossetti · 31/01/2019 20:47

In terms of interesting ancestry, my Italian DFs DM (my DGM - Nonna) managed to come to Italy from the US in the early 1900s !!!!

She was born in the US - making her a US citizen (and for reasons lost to posterity her sisters stayed in the US).

We suggested to DF he take up his US citizenship, but he wasn't bothered. I guess it's never too late ...

My DMs DF was born in Darjeeling - his first language was Hindi. He was overjoyed when Indians started coming to England as he could get a decent curry.

DGRossetti · 31/01/2019 20:53

There's 2 paths to Italian citizenship - blood or marriage, basically.

If you're really interested, there's a lot of chatter here:

www.tapatalk.com/groups/italiancitizenship/

IrenetheQuaint · 31/01/2019 20:56

Middlemarch is amazing!

Useful Institute for Government paper here, looking at whether the UK is ready for a no-deal Brexit (spoiler: no).

www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/sites/default/files/publications/brexit-two-months-to-go-final-web.pdf

Member745520 · 31/01/2019 21:03

@BiglyBadgers

No worries. I have worked in hospitals... Grin

Inniu · 31/01/2019 21:16

DGR Depending on your fathers date of birth he may have automatic US citizenship since birth.

OhLookHeKickedTheBall · 31/01/2019 21:23

My pgfs ancestors are all from the same place, same jobs, etc. until my ggf moved to a nearby town doing a different job exciting. Except for one who ventured out and married a descendent of posh family. Didn't work out and her dc ended up with her dps in the same town and doing the same job.

My pgms family were a complete basket of deplorables to borrow a phrase, though never really ventured more than 10 miles away.

I grew up in another town just down the road.

Don't know much about my mgps families though, they're the Irish side which makes it harder to trace. Either my MGM's gf or ggf were from Scotland though. Clearly the more travelled side of the family.

Jellykat · 31/01/2019 21:31

I'm half Eastender and half Greek, somehow think moving to Greece may unfortunately be a case of out of the economic frying pan into the fire, although things might be looking up there i understand..

OhLookHeKickedTheBall · 31/01/2019 21:31

Having pointed out the largely boringness of PGFs family tree, I am also a descended of the posh family and they're more interesting. And from what we can gather from the little we know of my MGPs family, we think one of PGFs ancestors venture being gifted land may have crossed paths (not in that way of course) with some of MGPs ancestors.

Hazardswans · 31/01/2019 21:51

^ from GD's link

Guardian one in three businesses moving abroad

Is there time to invent a moving business abroad tax? Or....we could frame this as the UK giving other economies a boost and isn't that very kind of us Hmm