Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Brexit

Westminstenders: Waiting for a Valentines Miracle

995 replies

RedToothBrush · 29/01/2019 23:50

Guess what folks, we get to do it all over again for Valentine's Day!

Bet you are all looking forward to that.

May has already been told by the EU its a non-starter, and with there being a vote scheduled again in a fortnight, there is little incentive for the EU to shift. And every incentive to just let us stew and think things over.

We are trying to renege on what we signed up to with the Withdrawal Agreement. Which only proves the EU needs the Backstop. Our credibility as a nation to do deals with is shot through the floor. With everyone but those who think they can stitch us up at least.

There is one key development with the latest vote:

The emergence of a new Brexit voting block within Labour, I believe led by Carole Flint. They are supporting Brexit and are prepared to vote with the government and against the Labour Whip.

This negates the Tory Rebel block, meaning May has a majority if she has the ERG on board - this being a big if, of course.

Many other potential rebels who threatened to quit from government, were detered from doing so by a promise from May and the promise that they had another show down on the 14th they could use to block No Deal.

In not quiting they are showing they are committed to some deal brokered by May and not an alternative by Parliament. This is important. There may be no realistic opportunity for anything else to be realistically be tabled by anyone else now.

I don't think they will quit now, if they can see a potential deal present itself.

The way forward now looks to be the Withdrawal Agreement or No Deal only. Keep this in mind and in focus. This will become an increasing pressure and increasingly definitive. Revoke is still on the table, but I just can't see May doing it. Ever.

Whether May can get the EU to back down on the backstop seems unlikely. Its going to be more backwards and forwards on it. Before it becomes obvious its going nowhere. Its just theatre.

What the ERG do next is important. My best guess is they will split into No Deal Hardliners and last minute WA Compromisers. This will leave May short of a majority, but not as far as she has been especially with Labour resolve weakening. I think she may yet get her deal over the line with Labour support of some sort. Probably unofficial rather than direct from public instruction the front bench.

Here's the logic: Corbyn has said he will now discuss matter with her. He still wants to pin Brexit on her and destroy her, but he still wants Brexit and he still wants to keep the Labour Party together despite its differences over Brexit. All without making a clear Labour policy. How does he do this?

The same way he handled the Immigration Bill is possibly the best guess. Plus how can he stop his rebels...? {innocent face emojy} He gets to look tough against May outwardly and make lots of Remainy noises without more outward support for a particular policy. Those awful stupid Northerner MP (or MPs from backward towns if you live in the Metropolian North) who know nothing and screwed Remainia. It plays people off along splits in society, in the hope they don't notice Corbyn really orchestrated it. His MPs in leave areas get to look Leave without consequence, and if it all goes wrong he still get to pin it on May. Thus saving his marginals in both the North and the South 'cos those evil Tories'. And he does stop No Deal in the process. Yes, call me cynical, but thats how he could try and game it. Ultimately Corbyn and May do have certain aligned mutual interests, afterall.

And given there are few alternatives now there apart from Revoke or No Deal, once you think it through doesn't seem as far fetched as it initally sounds. Corbyn certainly seems to have form for it. His priorities are his Party, managing his north / south cultural divide and being seen to kick the Tories.

It'll go to the wire whatever happens, and its hard to see many ways out of this now. We are running out of time, opportunities and options. Of course, this works for May and has been her plan for some time. The question is merely, if she is serious about preventing no deal (and I believe she is) how she persuades either the ERG or Labour to back her.

Afterall, after the WA is done and dusted there is still everything to play for.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
23
Scandaloso · 31/01/2019 21:54

Christ.

In public the brexiters will just squeak 'Global Britain' as they did when Dyson's move was announced a few weeks ago.

DangermousesSidekick · 31/01/2019 21:57

I've played with the idea of trying to move to Scotland before now.

Doing my wondering-out-loud again, there are clearly some diverse and well-connected people on here. Is there any hope of encouraging Corbyn to take a pro-PV stance for the mid-Feb votes by writing him some kind of open letter? Something reminding him about his 'constitutional' (unwritten or not) duty to actually provide opposition and political choice, and of his original selection as a possible LP leader to provide choice? And of his heavy leaning on the youth vote, given that we've passed Crossover day (theoretical shift to remain on the basis of birth/ deaths alone)? Something that could be circulated around academics quickly?

I am getting quite scared of a no-deal Brexit, and the more I learn any kind of Brexit!

lonelyplanetmum · 31/01/2019 22:00

Guardian one in three businesses moving abroad

Told you these catch phrases are dangerous.
Fuck business.
No deal is better etc

SwedishEdith · 31/01/2019 22:12

But, I’m thinking there’s a good chance some other Westministenders have an Italian ancestor if they go back far enough?

I believe Mark Gino Francois has one. Shame he's a twat so obviously won't bother applying for his Italian passport.

ElenadeClermont · 31/01/2019 22:12

I am Central European, which makes me a all sorts of ethnicities. Who knows?!

RedToothBrush · 31/01/2019 22:14

Re family history being boring. It depends on if you are just doing trees or whether you REALLY start digging into who people were. Boring trees hide dirty little secrets in my experience. It's sifting through newspaper records where you bring your past to life and find the criminals and murders!

What looks boring can turn out to be really interesting. It just depends on how and where you look.

People who all come from the same place can be the most interesting of the lot for that reason.

Its also siblings that disappear and you can't trace at first who hide the gems too.

I've some right crackers of stories that were hidden away in DHs and my family. My tip is not to just look at who was related to who, where they lived and what they did for a living. You will find it boring.

OP posts:
RedToothBrush · 31/01/2019 22:15

Anyway

Steve Swinford @ steve_swinford
Exclusive

Sajid Javid said to have told Cabinet colleague Brexit delay now likely as it emerges third of Cabinet believe A50 extension may be needed

Javid is said to have raised concerns that PM will run out of time to pass legislation needed for Brexit

www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/01/31/sajid-javid-warned-brexit-may-delayed-third-cabinet-admit-article/amp/?__twitter_impression=true
Sajid Javid admits Brexit may be delayed as clock ticks for May

OP posts:
TheElementsSong · 31/01/2019 22:16

Can see it in the shifting Leaver storybook - the "We've survived before, it won't be as bad as Armageddon, we'll won't all die/starve therefore Success!" narrative has really come to the forefront recently, visibly ramped up in the past few days even. Lots more posts to that effect on the Brexit threads, and now whole threads started about this Hmm

RedToothBrush · 31/01/2019 22:19

More hollow laughing...

Westminstenders: Waiting for a Valentines Miracle
Westminstenders: Waiting for a Valentines Miracle
OP posts:
Scandaloso · 31/01/2019 22:19

Leavers are so far into the cult now that they're doubling down. Logic and reason left the building a long time ago. Brexit Davidians.

lonelyplanetmum · 31/01/2019 22:21

We've survived before, it won't be as bad as Armageddon, we'll won't all die/starve therefore Success!"

What worries me is we've shifted in a very short time from :
EU membership >
Norway or Switzerland >
Canada+>
WA>
Managed no deal>
No deal>
Non starvation.

It's not going to stop there. It's a constantly and rapidly shifting downward spiral into some dystopian vortex. What will stop it?

mrslaughan · 31/01/2019 22:26

So you really really don't count if you are part of the 48%

As my husband pointed out - with the natural attrition to the 52% - it's probably more 50/50...... but we still don't matter

TheElementsSong · 31/01/2019 22:26

It's not going to stop there. It's a constantly and rapidly shifting downward spiral into some dystopian vortex. What will stop it?

It's a twisted form of pseudo-religious cult, in which greater and greater purity is demanded, at each iteration things that were previously acceptable now become betrayal, and believers compete for increasingly ridiculous acts of faith to demonstrate their belonging. I'm not sure there can be an end for the Truest BeLeavers. Secession from the known Universe and all forms of physical matter, perhaps.

RedToothBrush · 31/01/2019 22:41

How do suicide cults end?

We don't need to spell this out do we?

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 31/01/2019 22:41

Post Sorry to hear that 💐

No anti-british feeling directed here at British expats, just sympathy for us
There is bafflement / amusement / increasing exasperation at the HoC theatre and May doing her flights & dances - but that's at the politicians, not the people

DangermousesSidekick · 31/01/2019 22:45

Mrslaughlan, the Independent claims that we became a Remainer country purely on the basis of natural attrition on 19 Jan. Just playing with statistics, but it's interesting. www.independent.co.uk/voices/final-say-remain-leave-second-referendum-brexit-no-deal-crossover-day-a8541576.html

HesterThrale · 31/01/2019 22:46

My ancestors on both sides of the family originate from York. I'm tall, have a fair complexion and feel very at home in Denmark. I think I'm descended from Danish Vikings. Can I get an Danish passport?! Wink

BigChocFrenzy · 31/01/2019 22:53

Tony Connelly@tconnellyRTE

Here's a thing:
The UK EU Withdrawal Act, which is now law, says this about the Joint Report of Dec 2017:

"Nothing... in this Act authorises regulations which create or facilitate border arrangements between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland after exit day..

BigChocFrenzy · 31/01/2019 22:56

My GPs were all born 1870-1890, so Victoria was on the throne
Many MNers claim GPs born after WW2 - if I were sensitive, I might feel a bit ancient Confused

SingingBabooshkaBadly · 31/01/2019 23:01

I believe Mark Gino Francois has one. Shame he's a twat so obviously won't bother applying for his Italian passport.

Swedish A fiver says he does Grin

BigChocFrenzy · 31/01/2019 23:03

Any bets on Farage applying for a German one ?
Or will his mate Trump give him a US one - oops, hang on, Farage may want to stay out of that jurisdiction soon

RedToothBrush · 31/01/2019 23:06

I think Farage might have a fair chance of Belizian citizenship.

Or he could hide out with his mate in Ecuador. Oh wait. Not Ecuador. Oh wait, isn't he getting evicted soon?

OP posts:
Scandaloso · 31/01/2019 23:09

My GPs were all born 1870-1890, so Victoria was on the throne

Mine were all born in the 1890s. It's weird to think they were all technically Victorians and I'm 'only' 40.

Scandaloso · 31/01/2019 23:11

Oh I'd love if Ecuador's unwanted house guest got the shove shortly. And I'd love if the long arm of Mr Mueller came creeping towards Farage.

BigChocFrenzy · 31/01/2019 23:11

Ah, another GC of the Victorians.
I'm 62, hence more mid-Victorian GPs