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Brexit

Westminstenders: Waiting for a Valentines Miracle

995 replies

RedToothBrush · 29/01/2019 23:50

Guess what folks, we get to do it all over again for Valentine's Day!

Bet you are all looking forward to that.

May has already been told by the EU its a non-starter, and with there being a vote scheduled again in a fortnight, there is little incentive for the EU to shift. And every incentive to just let us stew and think things over.

We are trying to renege on what we signed up to with the Withdrawal Agreement. Which only proves the EU needs the Backstop. Our credibility as a nation to do deals with is shot through the floor. With everyone but those who think they can stitch us up at least.

There is one key development with the latest vote:

The emergence of a new Brexit voting block within Labour, I believe led by Carole Flint. They are supporting Brexit and are prepared to vote with the government and against the Labour Whip.

This negates the Tory Rebel block, meaning May has a majority if she has the ERG on board - this being a big if, of course.

Many other potential rebels who threatened to quit from government, were detered from doing so by a promise from May and the promise that they had another show down on the 14th they could use to block No Deal.

In not quiting they are showing they are committed to some deal brokered by May and not an alternative by Parliament. This is important. There may be no realistic opportunity for anything else to be realistically be tabled by anyone else now.

I don't think they will quit now, if they can see a potential deal present itself.

The way forward now looks to be the Withdrawal Agreement or No Deal only. Keep this in mind and in focus. This will become an increasing pressure and increasingly definitive. Revoke is still on the table, but I just can't see May doing it. Ever.

Whether May can get the EU to back down on the backstop seems unlikely. Its going to be more backwards and forwards on it. Before it becomes obvious its going nowhere. Its just theatre.

What the ERG do next is important. My best guess is they will split into No Deal Hardliners and last minute WA Compromisers. This will leave May short of a majority, but not as far as she has been especially with Labour resolve weakening. I think she may yet get her deal over the line with Labour support of some sort. Probably unofficial rather than direct from public instruction the front bench.

Here's the logic: Corbyn has said he will now discuss matter with her. He still wants to pin Brexit on her and destroy her, but he still wants Brexit and he still wants to keep the Labour Party together despite its differences over Brexit. All without making a clear Labour policy. How does he do this?

The same way he handled the Immigration Bill is possibly the best guess. Plus how can he stop his rebels...? {innocent face emojy} He gets to look tough against May outwardly and make lots of Remainy noises without more outward support for a particular policy. Those awful stupid Northerner MP (or MPs from backward towns if you live in the Metropolian North) who know nothing and screwed Remainia. It plays people off along splits in society, in the hope they don't notice Corbyn really orchestrated it. His MPs in leave areas get to look Leave without consequence, and if it all goes wrong he still get to pin it on May. Thus saving his marginals in both the North and the South 'cos those evil Tories'. And he does stop No Deal in the process. Yes, call me cynical, but thats how he could try and game it. Ultimately Corbyn and May do have certain aligned mutual interests, afterall.

And given there are few alternatives now there apart from Revoke or No Deal, once you think it through doesn't seem as far fetched as it initally sounds. Corbyn certainly seems to have form for it. His priorities are his Party, managing his north / south cultural divide and being seen to kick the Tories.

It'll go to the wire whatever happens, and its hard to see many ways out of this now. We are running out of time, opportunities and options. Of course, this works for May and has been her plan for some time. The question is merely, if she is serious about preventing no deal (and I believe she is) how she persuades either the ERG or Labour to back her.

Afterall, after the WA is done and dusted there is still everything to play for.

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FloralCup · 31/01/2019 18:24

Can anyone explain what this means?

If we Brexit with the WA and on 31.12.20 the backstop comes into play:
Northern Ireland will be in a deeper customs relationship with the EU than the rest of the UK; it will also be more closely aligned with the rules and regulations of the EU single market.
How will that work - the 'deeper relationship' and 'more closely aligned'

lonelyplanetmum · 31/01/2019 18:32

The UK must participate in the MEP elections if the extension lasts until the new EP opens.

Hmmmm- But if the U.K. parliament and each political party held the elections but all agreed not to take their seats^^ how could that be challenged legally as it would be entirely consensual? However, I guess the UKIP, Green and LibDem MEPs wouldn't agree not to sit anyway. Ok so it's a stupid idea but thanks for responding to it BCF.

It just seems to me as we've caused all this trouble - there must be some way we can agree to keep out of the EUs way!

DGRossetti · 31/01/2019 18:36

Maybe LibDem MEPs could receive votes without it being regarded as connected to their domestic policies ?

The UK returning 73 pro-EU MEPs should count for something ...

golondrina · 31/01/2019 18:38

missclimpson I've been here since 1999. Spain doesn't recognise dual nationality so once you take Spanish citizenship you are in Spain's eyes only Spanish. Part of the citizenship process is renouncing other nationalities. In practice, nothing happens and Britain still considers you British, although I wouldn't travel on a UK passport in and out of Spain once I had Spanish nationality. To be quite honest, I don't even care any more about renouncing UK nationality, I'll be sadder to renounce Irish nationality.

lonelyplanetmum · 31/01/2019 18:41

The UK returning 73 pro-EU MEPs should count for something ...

Think you're onto something there.

As I keep saying if only polls would show a LibDem surge ( even a fake one with fingers crossed behind your back) then that would work wonders on the party first brigade.

Missbel · 31/01/2019 18:42

It's thanks to Trevelyan and his ilk that I'm British not Irish, having as ancestors famine escapees... unfortunately, Irish great great grandparents (even though I have quite a few of them) don't entitle you to Irish citizenship. Now if we could have some sort of arithmetic - 4 great great grandparents = one grandparent, I'd be in with a chance. Envy

lonelyplanetmum · 31/01/2019 18:43

4 great great grandparents = one grandparent, I'd be in with a chance. 

Me too!

IceOnTheCar · 31/01/2019 18:47

My family stayed, it was hard for them. So many left or died. There were a few incidents locally of cousins marrying as there were so few people available.

golondrina · 31/01/2019 18:49

I've got loads actually, one parent and 3 grandparents, thank goodness with being in Spain and Brexit, at least it's a kind of insurance policy.

1tisILeClerc · 31/01/2019 18:52

If you want to have an excuse to feel 'down' have a quick look at the Express (online). Be prepared to feel very embarrassed at being 'British'.
on the upside, the piece about space aliens looks plausible.
The 'report' about 10cm of snow which is going to make the UK grind to a halt will amuse Europeans who cope with a metre or so regularly.

Peregrina · 31/01/2019 18:53

I am in the same position Missbel - I suspect an awful lot of us run to Irish great great grandparents, as a result of the famine.

I must admit I would take enormous pleasure in seeing the Irish American lobby scuppering a US/UK trade deal.

BiglyBadgers · 31/01/2019 18:54

I have Irish great grandparents but they moved to England before my nan was born unfortunately.

SusanWalker · 31/01/2019 18:54

I don't see why Ireland can't continue exporting to the EU via the UK after brexit regardless of what happens. Surely they can just have sealed lorries that can't be opened until they hit the EU. Of course that might be a touch grown up for some people.

Irish chap on politics live today have a good précis of the Irish pov on the backstop. If they dilute/remove it they could end up with a permanent hard border. If we no deal they could end up with a hard border but it would likely be temporary as signing up to the backstop would be the first condition of a trade deal with the EU.

BiglyBadgers · 31/01/2019 18:56

Be prepared to feel very embarrassed at being 'British'.

I already feel mortified by the whole thing. I'm reaching the stage when I want to leave the country and renounce my citizenship out of sheer embarrassment at being anywhere near the whole mess.

SusanWalker · 31/01/2019 18:59

There was a stockpiling article in the i today which also referenced Mumsnet. Everytime I read one I think the people interviewed must be mnetters. Where else are they finding them from?

SusanWalker · 31/01/2019 19:01

I activated my brexit insurance policy today by buying a lucky dip for Friday's lottery. If I had £100 million pounds I could buy myself citizenship elsewhere. I hear Malta's a good bet.

missclimpson · 31/01/2019 19:04

Thanks golondrina that is what DS said too. He had been in Spain since '92, but is reluctant to give up his British nationality, though he will if he has to. I suspect football comes into it somewhere. 😊

prettybird · 31/01/2019 19:06

Unfortunately, although I could claim another country's citizenship, at the present time it is not that useful and in the wrong hemisphere (South Africa). Would be nice and warm at the moment though Grin

All my many other relatives are just one generation too far to claim citizenship (Ireland, Germany: dad's grandmother was Irish and his grandfather on the other side was German) or, even though they were brought up there, were born elsewhere (Denmark)Sad. I have lots of German and Danish 2nd cousins Hmm.

I'll just need to pin my hopes on being able to claim Scottish citizenship in a few years Wink

BiglyBadgers · 31/01/2019 19:34

I almost applied for a job in Edinburgh the other day on the assumption that if we no deal Scotland will be back independent and back in the EU in no time. Also currently Scottish politicians seem marginally more sane than the English ones.

umpteennamechanges · 31/01/2019 19:40

I'm a mutt...two sets of Irish great-great grandparents (went to Stoke via Liverpool escaping the famine) but the remaining are English.

umpteennamechanges · 31/01/2019 19:44

All of my ancestors were poor irrespective of Irish or English. DH on the other hand is one of those descendants of the Normans...his tree is full of Counts and Sheriffs of Nottingham Hmm

Inniu · 31/01/2019 19:47

@SusanWalker yes Ireland can use sealed containers on the UK land bridge but if there are huge delays in Calais and Dover it would impact those containers unless both France and UK have separate facilities for sealed Irish containers.

Member745520 · 31/01/2019 19:47

I was idly adding up my ancestral assets the other day but all I could come up with was

1 - a great great grandmother who was French (but she did play one of the pianos at the Great Exhibition, and that's my claim to fame!)
2 - a Spanish son-in-law
3 - the fact that I once passed as a German army officer's wife when hitchhiking through the border at Aachen; he was in full uniform and giving me a lift and when we got near the border told me to not get my passport out, he would say I was his wife. When the official approached, my 'husband' just flashed his pass and we were promptly waved through... I never even knew his name!

An eclectic mix, but alas, no chance... Sad

BiglyBadgers · 31/01/2019 20:03

Talking of interesting ancestors, I found out just the other day that my grandad was arrested in Canada in the sixties on suspicion of espionage. He was in a very sensitive job and targeted by a Russian spy. He got aquited in the end because apparently they found notes in the actual spy's papers saying that my grandad was too out and proud about his leftwing leanings to be safe to approach. Basically he was too openly communist to be recruited by the Communists. For some reason this tickles me greatly.

BestIsWest · 31/01/2019 20:06

Another with Irish great great great grandparents who left Cork for the Welsh valleys during the famine. They didn’t have it easy afterwards either, appearing on the Cardiff Workhouse register in the 1861 census.