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Brexit

Westminstenders: Waiting for a Valentines Miracle

995 replies

RedToothBrush · 29/01/2019 23:50

Guess what folks, we get to do it all over again for Valentine's Day!

Bet you are all looking forward to that.

May has already been told by the EU its a non-starter, and with there being a vote scheduled again in a fortnight, there is little incentive for the EU to shift. And every incentive to just let us stew and think things over.

We are trying to renege on what we signed up to with the Withdrawal Agreement. Which only proves the EU needs the Backstop. Our credibility as a nation to do deals with is shot through the floor. With everyone but those who think they can stitch us up at least.

There is one key development with the latest vote:

The emergence of a new Brexit voting block within Labour, I believe led by Carole Flint. They are supporting Brexit and are prepared to vote with the government and against the Labour Whip.

This negates the Tory Rebel block, meaning May has a majority if she has the ERG on board - this being a big if, of course.

Many other potential rebels who threatened to quit from government, were detered from doing so by a promise from May and the promise that they had another show down on the 14th they could use to block No Deal.

In not quiting they are showing they are committed to some deal brokered by May and not an alternative by Parliament. This is important. There may be no realistic opportunity for anything else to be realistically be tabled by anyone else now.

I don't think they will quit now, if they can see a potential deal present itself.

The way forward now looks to be the Withdrawal Agreement or No Deal only. Keep this in mind and in focus. This will become an increasing pressure and increasingly definitive. Revoke is still on the table, but I just can't see May doing it. Ever.

Whether May can get the EU to back down on the backstop seems unlikely. Its going to be more backwards and forwards on it. Before it becomes obvious its going nowhere. Its just theatre.

What the ERG do next is important. My best guess is they will split into No Deal Hardliners and last minute WA Compromisers. This will leave May short of a majority, but not as far as she has been especially with Labour resolve weakening. I think she may yet get her deal over the line with Labour support of some sort. Probably unofficial rather than direct from public instruction the front bench.

Here's the logic: Corbyn has said he will now discuss matter with her. He still wants to pin Brexit on her and destroy her, but he still wants Brexit and he still wants to keep the Labour Party together despite its differences over Brexit. All without making a clear Labour policy. How does he do this?

The same way he handled the Immigration Bill is possibly the best guess. Plus how can he stop his rebels...? {innocent face emojy} He gets to look tough against May outwardly and make lots of Remainy noises without more outward support for a particular policy. Those awful stupid Northerner MP (or MPs from backward towns if you live in the Metropolian North) who know nothing and screwed Remainia. It plays people off along splits in society, in the hope they don't notice Corbyn really orchestrated it. His MPs in leave areas get to look Leave without consequence, and if it all goes wrong he still get to pin it on May. Thus saving his marginals in both the North and the South 'cos those evil Tories'. And he does stop No Deal in the process. Yes, call me cynical, but thats how he could try and game it. Ultimately Corbyn and May do have certain aligned mutual interests, afterall.

And given there are few alternatives now there apart from Revoke or No Deal, once you think it through doesn't seem as far fetched as it initally sounds. Corbyn certainly seems to have form for it. His priorities are his Party, managing his north / south cultural divide and being seen to kick the Tories.

It'll go to the wire whatever happens, and its hard to see many ways out of this now. We are running out of time, opportunities and options. Of course, this works for May and has been her plan for some time. The question is merely, if she is serious about preventing no deal (and I believe she is) how she persuades either the ERG or Labour to back her.

Afterall, after the WA is done and dusted there is still everything to play for.

OP posts:
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mybrainhurtsalot · 31/01/2019 17:32

I think there was an article some weeks ago about TM having a meeting with the Conservative MEPs asking them to be ready to stand if we end up participating in EU elections. I’ll see if I can find the link.

1tisILeClerc · 31/01/2019 17:35

{I bet Theresa May has already started motions to stop this}
Is it only me that can see 'parliamentary motions' as having 2 meanings in the UK parliament?

DGRossetti · 31/01/2019 17:35

I think there was an article some weeks ago about TM having a meeting with the Conservative MEPs asking them to be ready to stand if we end up participating in EU elections.

So an increasingly cash strapped Tory party is happy to spunk on 73 election campaigns ? How will they spin that to the Great British Public as being a great advert for their managing the process of Leaving the EU ?

nicoala1 · 31/01/2019 17:38

Anyone know if an extension to A50 timetable would be contingent on the WA agreement being passed + full backstop by 29/3?

You know, to allow legislative housekeeping etc. Not to kick the can down the road anymore.

I’m not sure.

BigChocFrenzy · 31/01/2019 17:46

I gather "bad faith" is what the EU are privately calling it

BigChocFrenzy · 31/01/2019 17:50

nicola The EU would certainly extend for that, but it wouldn't be a requirement.

They'd agree to one extension for pretty much any grounds, for the reasons i listed upthread.

However, if that was wasted on fantasy and gtrying to bully Ireland, then I expect that would be the 1st and final extension.
the end

lonelyplanetmum · 31/01/2019 17:52

I think there was an article some weeks ago about TM having a meeting with the Conservative MEPs asking them to be ready to stand ...

As we've caused so much trouble already couldn't all UK parties agree to not stand for the EU elections or not take their seats or something during the Withdrawal/ notice period/ interregnum ? Just leave the seats not sat in or unexercised like Sinn Fien do?

Then we could dip our toe in the waters of rule taking without making- might make it more palatable ( or not).

BigChocFrenzy · 31/01/2019 17:54

Brexit Irish Border Fears Spur Warning on U.S.-U.K. Trade Talks

As expected, the powerful Irish-American lobby trundle into action.
Mostly Democrats, but at least one prominent hard right Trump Republican, Rep Peter King.

Looks like No Deal / no backstop, means No Deal with the US too
That squelching sound you hear is the disgraced Werrity-sniffer sharting

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-01-30/brexit-irish-border-fears-spur-warning-on-u-s-u-k-trade-talks

It would also raise hackles in Congress and threaten support for a post-Brexit trade negotiation with the U.K., he added.

“It’s just a fact that if the U.K. reneges on its Good Friday commitments, it will have an impact on any future negotiation between the U.S. and U.K. It would be naïve to think otherwise,’’

umpteennamechanges · 31/01/2019 17:54

It would make me unbelievably happy if he had hedged positions based on the 29th March and was completely screwed over by an extension

^ This would be brilliant!

Are MPs allowed to do this though? Isn't it a bit like insider trading since they have influence over the timing?

prettybird · 31/01/2019 17:55

Wasn't Nadine Dorries shocked that we would no longer have MEPs "once we were out of the EU" like she wants and would have to be rule takers during transition? ShockConfused

Scandaloso · 31/01/2019 17:55

Hey, everyone! Nick Timothy’s got a solution. Huzzah.

Thank you, Nicholas, for giving us your weekly reminder that you’re a clueless and arrogant idiot.

(Why are Nick Timothy's thoughts still sought by anyone??)

Westminstenders: Waiting for a Valentines Miracle
icannotremember · 31/01/2019 17:57

And what does one call it when they themselves vote against the thing they signed?

Mayhem ;)

prettybird · 31/01/2019 17:58

A variant from the John Humphrys arrogant school of thinking Hmm

Ireland should jolly well do what it is told and stop making things difficult for the UK. Confused

BigChocFrenzy · 31/01/2019 17:59

lonely That wouldn't be legal - under EU law for the UK to waive having MEPs.
Unfortunately, the "undemocratic EU" has laws requiring that all members have MEPS to represent them

The UK must participate in the MEP elections if the extension lasts until the new EP opens.

Otherwise, EU lawyers fear, any decisions the European Parliament takes might be later challenged in the ECJ - by anyone, not just the UK - as illegal

umpteennamechanges · 31/01/2019 18:01

Does Nick Timothy even understand how the EU works?

BigChocFrenzy · 31/01/2019 18:02

Brexiters demanding everyone else tie themselves in knots,
just because 100 years ago they decided to forcibly tear away & hang onto part of a country that had voted for Independence

BigChocFrenzy · 31/01/2019 18:03

To be fair, although JRM does seem that old:

Brexiters demanding everyone else tie themselves in knots,
just because 100 years ago their spiritual predecessors decided to forcibly tear away & hang onto part of a country that had voted for Independence

BiglyBadgers · 31/01/2019 18:04

Does Nick Timothy even understand how the EU works?

At least half the country appears to have not the foggiest how the EU works so I guess he's not alone there.

umpteennamechanges · 31/01/2019 18:05

I'm currently reading about the Irish famine and I have to say the MPs involved at that time and JRM are cut from the same cloth.

BigChocFrenzy · 31/01/2019 18:06

Tory thinking hasn't changed over the decades / centuries:
52% of Brits trump the wishes of 92% of Irish

IceOnTheCar · 31/01/2019 18:08

A variant from the John Humphrys arrogant school of thinking

They believe they are their ancestors who ran the East India trading company!

OhLookHeKickedTheBall · 31/01/2019 18:09

I can't help but laugh at the American issue. Leave so we can get a trade deal with them, but if we screw the Irish wave goodbye to it.

Not that it wasn't something predicted on here shortly after if not before the referendum.

BigChocFrenzy · 31/01/2019 18:11

Umpteen Have you read about Trevelyan yet ?
He sounds a spiritual ancestor of the Tory rightwing

Deliberate genocide against Ireland ?

Sir Charles Trevelyan was a 19th Century British senior civil servant and colonial administrator_
_
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SirCharlesTrevelyan%2C1stBaronet?wprov=sfla1

During the height of the Irish famine, Trevelyan deliberately dragged his feet in disbursing direct government food and monetary aid to the Irish
due to his strident belief in laissez-faire economics and the free hand of the market.

In a letter to an Irish peer, Lord Monteagle of Brandon, a former Chancellor of the Exchequer, _
_
he described the famine as an "effective mechanism for reducing surplus population"_
as well as "the judgement of God"__

and wrote that ^^
"The real evil with which we have to contend is not the physical evil of the Famine, but the moral evil of the selfish, perverse and turbulent character of the people".

Trevelyan never expressed remorse for his comments,
even after the full dreadful scope (approximately 1 million lives) of the Irish famine became known.

BigChocFrenzy · 31/01/2019 18:16

pretty I think Dorries was shocked that we would lose MEPs at all
She thought Brexit meant keeping the right in perpetuity to pass EU laws
Cos we're British

prettybird · 31/01/2019 18:21

You wrote that incorrectly BigChoc Wink

It's because "We iz speshul English" Grin