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Brexit

Westminstenders: Waiting for a Valentines Miracle

995 replies

RedToothBrush · 29/01/2019 23:50

Guess what folks, we get to do it all over again for Valentine's Day!

Bet you are all looking forward to that.

May has already been told by the EU its a non-starter, and with there being a vote scheduled again in a fortnight, there is little incentive for the EU to shift. And every incentive to just let us stew and think things over.

We are trying to renege on what we signed up to with the Withdrawal Agreement. Which only proves the EU needs the Backstop. Our credibility as a nation to do deals with is shot through the floor. With everyone but those who think they can stitch us up at least.

There is one key development with the latest vote:

The emergence of a new Brexit voting block within Labour, I believe led by Carole Flint. They are supporting Brexit and are prepared to vote with the government and against the Labour Whip.

This negates the Tory Rebel block, meaning May has a majority if she has the ERG on board - this being a big if, of course.

Many other potential rebels who threatened to quit from government, were detered from doing so by a promise from May and the promise that they had another show down on the 14th they could use to block No Deal.

In not quiting they are showing they are committed to some deal brokered by May and not an alternative by Parliament. This is important. There may be no realistic opportunity for anything else to be realistically be tabled by anyone else now.

I don't think they will quit now, if they can see a potential deal present itself.

The way forward now looks to be the Withdrawal Agreement or No Deal only. Keep this in mind and in focus. This will become an increasing pressure and increasingly definitive. Revoke is still on the table, but I just can't see May doing it. Ever.

Whether May can get the EU to back down on the backstop seems unlikely. Its going to be more backwards and forwards on it. Before it becomes obvious its going nowhere. Its just theatre.

What the ERG do next is important. My best guess is they will split into No Deal Hardliners and last minute WA Compromisers. This will leave May short of a majority, but not as far as she has been especially with Labour resolve weakening. I think she may yet get her deal over the line with Labour support of some sort. Probably unofficial rather than direct from public instruction the front bench.

Here's the logic: Corbyn has said he will now discuss matter with her. He still wants to pin Brexit on her and destroy her, but he still wants Brexit and he still wants to keep the Labour Party together despite its differences over Brexit. All without making a clear Labour policy. How does he do this?

The same way he handled the Immigration Bill is possibly the best guess. Plus how can he stop his rebels...? {innocent face emojy} He gets to look tough against May outwardly and make lots of Remainy noises without more outward support for a particular policy. Those awful stupid Northerner MP (or MPs from backward towns if you live in the Metropolian North) who know nothing and screwed Remainia. It plays people off along splits in society, in the hope they don't notice Corbyn really orchestrated it. His MPs in leave areas get to look Leave without consequence, and if it all goes wrong he still get to pin it on May. Thus saving his marginals in both the North and the South 'cos those evil Tories'. And he does stop No Deal in the process. Yes, call me cynical, but thats how he could try and game it. Ultimately Corbyn and May do have certain aligned mutual interests, afterall.

And given there are few alternatives now there apart from Revoke or No Deal, once you think it through doesn't seem as far fetched as it initally sounds. Corbyn certainly seems to have form for it. His priorities are his Party, managing his north / south cultural divide and being seen to kick the Tories.

It'll go to the wire whatever happens, and its hard to see many ways out of this now. We are running out of time, opportunities and options. Of course, this works for May and has been her plan for some time. The question is merely, if she is serious about preventing no deal (and I believe she is) how she persuades either the ERG or Labour to back her.

Afterall, after the WA is done and dusted there is still everything to play for.

OP posts:
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DangermousesSidekick · 30/01/2019 22:31

It was me umpteen, thanks. I can't believe the total lack of preparation that has gone into this.

Jellykat · 30/01/2019 22:36

Ah yes 1tisLeClerc i'd completely forgotten about the Chequers fiasco!

1tisILeClerc · 30/01/2019 22:46

The Chequers thing wasn't even that they deliberately set impossible red lines, but that it was late and the abusive language used by cabinet ministers on repeated occasions. Diplomatic protocol is called for at all times and even more so when the UK is going to rely on the EU to feed it in the future as food supplies from the USA will travel slowly, so can't be fresh and expensive. Lettuces from Spain or wherever can be growing one morning and in your supermarket in Nottingham the next morning.

nicoala1 · 30/01/2019 22:52

The other side of the coin for balance...

twitter.com/LBC/status/1090527294039486464

Peregrina · 30/01/2019 23:02

Why didn't TM ascertain what parliament would pass BEFORE she went to the EU and signed off the agreement??

Because she's got used to decreeing what will happen, and had to be taken to Court before a ruling was given that Parliament had to approve, which even then she objected to. In this she is a complete fool - by keeping all of Parliament in the loop, she could have spread the blame. Now it's her and the ERG who will get the blame, although they will do their utmost to blame Corbyn, the Irish, the EU, whichever scapegoat can be found.

TokyoSushi · 30/01/2019 23:12

Gosh Sky News is depressing tonight, I'd not seen until just now how vehemently the EU27 has said no to re-opening the agreement today.

No deal here we come - I'm going to bed!

TatianaLarina · 30/01/2019 23:17

Peston’s FB piece.

Westminstenders: Waiting for a Valentines Miracle
TatianaLarina · 30/01/2019 23:19

Mike Galsworthy @mikegalsworthy

Peston is absolutely right in this assessment.

Those of us that are in Labour & watching closely know this to be the case... and it is a thorough betrayal of Labour internal ‘democracy’.

There are 2 plans: 1) agreement (dangerous) 2) allow leaked May support against the whip.

TatianaLarina · 30/01/2019 23:20

Mike Galsworthy @mikegalsworthy

If Corbyn shepherds through Tory Brexit...

overtly or covertly...

it will blow up Labour internally — no doubt. No doubt.

[And the Tories have no intention to keep to any agreement. Gove plan. So LOTO would be suckers to a trap]

Peregrina · 30/01/2019 23:25

And the Tories have no intention to keep to any agreement. Gove plan. So LOTO would be suckers to a trap.

I agree. Although I was pleased to see Corbyn putting in something about Workers rights. However, like the EU, he needs to make sure that it's so tightly drawn legally, that the Tories can't wriggle out.

I went on the demo for the People's Vote, but I am not sure about it - it was more to demonstrate that we the 48% haven't gone away. Another Referendum would be manipulated like the last one was. A significant number of Leave voters who are now noisy experts about WTO and such like, neither knew nor cared about the EU, or had even heard of the WTO. They just weren't interested in politics.

Apileofballyhoo · 30/01/2019 23:40

an opportunist fuck wit who is listening to the polls too much as he's a spineless popularist

Thanks Red, I literally just clicked about the polls when I reread my own question just now. I'm so sick of the lot of them.

BigChocFrenzy · 31/01/2019 00:06

I'd welcome a modified PD requiring that UK workers retain all current rights
Also modifications that safeguard the NHS being privatised.

I'm no Corbyn fan, but those would be improvements
and the EU would sign off happily on such changes

However, he must leave the backstop alone

GD12 · 31/01/2019 00:10

This is interesting and looking at the comments. twitter.com/Channel4News/status/1090726346194542592?s=19

It does make me think May wouldnt go for a no deal, simply because the UK is nowhere near ready and she knows it.

BigChocFrenzy · 31/01/2019 00:19

You are presuming that because May knows No Deal would be a disaster that she would prioritise stopping it
over avoiding splitting the Tory party.

To date she has always prioritised the tory party over the country

GD12 · 31/01/2019 00:23

I know, and it's most likely incompetency on part of the govt.

GD12 · 31/01/2019 00:24

This is nuts too!

twitter.com/Cornwall4EU/status/1090742279009112064?s=19

GD12 · 31/01/2019 00:26

^^^incompetence.

BigChocFrenzy · 31/01/2019 00:26

Times

Westminstenders: Waiting for a Valentines Miracle
BigChocFrenzy · 31/01/2019 00:28

Daniel Keohanee@KeohaneDan*

Micheál Martin, leader of main opposition Fianna Fáil (which also has C&S accord with Fine Gael), very clear @BBCr4todayy^ that
there is cross-parliamentary support in Ireland for EU/Irish position on the backstop.^

“Brexit transcends party politics” as a vital national interest.

Apileofballyhoo · 31/01/2019 00:53

I think that the PV is pointless because 'no deal is better than a bad deal' etc etc etc. Unless all the choices are on the ballot there'll be war etc etc etc.
Then the leave vote would be spilt etc etc etc.

However, tactically, supporting a PV is probably the safest thing Labour could do.

The honest thing to do and the morally right thing to do and the ethical thing to do?

Apileofballyhoo · 31/01/2019 00:55

Jesus that Times story is scary.

BigChocFrenzy · 31/01/2019 01:04

Patrick Maguire@patrickkmaguire

Corbyn tells Sky that it’s unacceptable that UK can’t unilaterally exit backstop.
Two questions...

  1. Backstop effectively provides the customs union that Labour wants.
    Why does not being able to leave it matter?

  2. Lab policy is not to support backstop without x-community support in NI.
    Nationalists incl SDLP and others don’t want unilateral exit.
    Are we just ignoring this?

BigChocFrenzy · 31/01/2019 01:08

Corbyn's comments put Labour's hard-won reputation for responsibility in Northern Ireland is at risk

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2019/01/jeremy-corbyns-opposition-irish-backstop-needlessly-damaging-labour

It is fraying Labour's bonds with its sister party, the SDLP,
and this stuff goes down very badly in Dublin too.

Nothing assures the Irish government that its refusal to budge and take the promises on their word is justified more than statements like Corbyn's.

MrsLettuce · 31/01/2019 01:09

So he's making support for the backstop conditional on some sort of PV in NI? Am I understanding that wrongly?

BigChocFrenzy · 31/01/2019 01:15

Irritation with London over Brexit now bordering on anger

www.irishtimes.com/news/world/uk/irritation-with-london-over-brexit-now-bordering-on-anger-1.3776545

Brussels likely to sit tight while MPs get another chance to block no-deal on February 14th