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Brexit

Westminstenders: Waiting for a Valentines Miracle

995 replies

RedToothBrush · 29/01/2019 23:50

Guess what folks, we get to do it all over again for Valentine's Day!

Bet you are all looking forward to that.

May has already been told by the EU its a non-starter, and with there being a vote scheduled again in a fortnight, there is little incentive for the EU to shift. And every incentive to just let us stew and think things over.

We are trying to renege on what we signed up to with the Withdrawal Agreement. Which only proves the EU needs the Backstop. Our credibility as a nation to do deals with is shot through the floor. With everyone but those who think they can stitch us up at least.

There is one key development with the latest vote:

The emergence of a new Brexit voting block within Labour, I believe led by Carole Flint. They are supporting Brexit and are prepared to vote with the government and against the Labour Whip.

This negates the Tory Rebel block, meaning May has a majority if she has the ERG on board - this being a big if, of course.

Many other potential rebels who threatened to quit from government, were detered from doing so by a promise from May and the promise that they had another show down on the 14th they could use to block No Deal.

In not quiting they are showing they are committed to some deal brokered by May and not an alternative by Parliament. This is important. There may be no realistic opportunity for anything else to be realistically be tabled by anyone else now.

I don't think they will quit now, if they can see a potential deal present itself.

The way forward now looks to be the Withdrawal Agreement or No Deal only. Keep this in mind and in focus. This will become an increasing pressure and increasingly definitive. Revoke is still on the table, but I just can't see May doing it. Ever.

Whether May can get the EU to back down on the backstop seems unlikely. Its going to be more backwards and forwards on it. Before it becomes obvious its going nowhere. Its just theatre.

What the ERG do next is important. My best guess is they will split into No Deal Hardliners and last minute WA Compromisers. This will leave May short of a majority, but not as far as she has been especially with Labour resolve weakening. I think she may yet get her deal over the line with Labour support of some sort. Probably unofficial rather than direct from public instruction the front bench.

Here's the logic: Corbyn has said he will now discuss matter with her. He still wants to pin Brexit on her and destroy her, but he still wants Brexit and he still wants to keep the Labour Party together despite its differences over Brexit. All without making a clear Labour policy. How does he do this?

The same way he handled the Immigration Bill is possibly the best guess. Plus how can he stop his rebels...? {innocent face emojy} He gets to look tough against May outwardly and make lots of Remainy noises without more outward support for a particular policy. Those awful stupid Northerner MP (or MPs from backward towns if you live in the Metropolian North) who know nothing and screwed Remainia. It plays people off along splits in society, in the hope they don't notice Corbyn really orchestrated it. His MPs in leave areas get to look Leave without consequence, and if it all goes wrong he still get to pin it on May. Thus saving his marginals in both the North and the South 'cos those evil Tories'. And he does stop No Deal in the process. Yes, call me cynical, but thats how he could try and game it. Ultimately Corbyn and May do have certain aligned mutual interests, afterall.

And given there are few alternatives now there apart from Revoke or No Deal, once you think it through doesn't seem as far fetched as it initally sounds. Corbyn certainly seems to have form for it. His priorities are his Party, managing his north / south cultural divide and being seen to kick the Tories.

It'll go to the wire whatever happens, and its hard to see many ways out of this now. We are running out of time, opportunities and options. Of course, this works for May and has been her plan for some time. The question is merely, if she is serious about preventing no deal (and I believe she is) how she persuades either the ERG or Labour to back her.

Afterall, after the WA is done and dusted there is still everything to play for.

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nicoala1 · 30/01/2019 21:08

BigChock. thank you.

FPTP will stifle it all anyway.

LDs as a protest vote is on the cards now, despite their loo laa trans stuff etc.

If only they would or could try to appeal to those who dislike both Tory and Labour.

But as I said FPTP is so undemocratic really. And I know some will say that could let UKIP in, but so what? It is a democratic decision, and the voice of SOME people.

I reckon the silencing of those who do not wish to vote either Labour or Tory is totally undemocratic. But there we are.

After Brexit (however that may turn out), there should be a movement for anything other than FPTP now. It has failed. IMO.

derxa · 30/01/2019 21:13

It's no deal isn't it. I give up.

nicoala1 · 30/01/2019 21:18

No Deal will not happen IMV.

Revoke maybe.

Seriously, if UK decides to exit with no deal it is curtains for everyone. And they know this.

They are just parading their post colonial hubris now. I sincerely hope the EU tells them to take a hike.

BigChocFrenzy · 30/01/2019 21:23

I think some would rather crash out in flames, taking us plebs with them,
than admit they didn't know what Brexit involved and have screwed the pooch

and others will be sitting at 10:59pm on 29 March, expecting the EU to blink

Suez on Steroids

The EU said from the beginning there would be no cake - legal rules prevent this even if they wanted to.
That applies both to "frictionless trade" to save our economy and to the NI border

The Tories were too arrogant to believe them

BigChocFrenzy · 30/01/2019 21:26

Worse yet, the Uk had Ivan Rogers, a very clever man to match Barnier ...
but forced him out
Sending our star player off the field

Ollie Robbins isn't at the Barnier talent level, or maybe he is just too intimidated by the MPs who've been calling for his head the last year

TokyoSushi · 30/01/2019 21:27

So is Tusk basically saying if you can't tell us what these mystical 'alternative arrangements' are a border made of glitter manned by unicorns then don't bother coming?

Fuck, she's going back in 2 weeks with nothing isn't she?

I wonder if in the end the WA, as is, will go through because it's literally the only alternative to no deal?

BigChocFrenzy · 30/01/2019 21:30

Those are the only 2 options on the table:
WA or No Deal

Juncker reaffirming again EU solidarity with Ireland is fundamental:

'I get the impression some [in UK] hope the other 26 will abandon the backstop and Ireland, but this is not a game.

It goes to the heart of what being a member of the EU means

Ireland’s border is Europe’s border and it’s our union’s priority.'

mrslaughan · 30/01/2019 21:33

I thought in the whole who funded brexit/follow the money, that it was clear ERG is funded by Russia? At least partially?

lonelyplanetmum · 30/01/2019 21:36

I think some would rather crash out in flames, taking us plebs with them,than admit they didn't know what Brexit involved and have screwed the pooch

True BeLeavers like FIL are getting what they think they wanted. And many voters and politicians will never ever admit it was the wrong choice however bad things get.

DH spoke to FIL this evening. DH had a little moan about money.FIL ( who is just off on a cruise!) said “ never mind only a few weeks now and prices will come down.”
DH explained prices would go up, explained WTO, tariffs, customs, domestic inability to meet food supply- they discussed the full works.

FIL would not admit that he didn't know what Brexit involved. At each stage he repeated ‘prices will come down’, finally saying DH was wrong that prices would increase, but if DH was right it would only be because companies “jumped on the bandwagon”.

For me that is the nub of it. We can no deal, the pound will plummet, companies and talent will haemorrhage out of the U.K.
However for Leavers like FIL and politicians in the ERG they will never ever question their vision. It will either be the EUs fault for not giving us free unicorns, or it will be business exploiting prices and jumping on the bandwagon.Or it will be a world recession that was happening anyway.

Hazardswans · 30/01/2019 21:36

Read earlier today JC is considering supporting the Cooper amendment in Feb. He's very good at considering things...

EU won't extend for fannying but they will for a GE, PV or to implement an actual plan/deal.

Is HoC going to be really annoying and spring into action at the last min with either CU deal or PV and extend? rhetorical

nicoala1 · 30/01/2019 21:45

Any alternative to a NO DEAL is looking ok now, given the mess that is going on.

But with one proviso... the backstop has to happen for peace and no more terrorism. I am a bit scared that dissidents and their ilk are just waiting for a hard border to kick off again and kill and maim, and destruct everything that has been solved right now.

Am I over reacting here?

LittleSpace · 30/01/2019 21:50

Your FIL sounds like my Dad!

SusanWalker · 30/01/2019 21:58

So we're back to TM going to Brussels and asking what they will offer her, rather than us taking an idea over and putting it on the table. Although there are no ideas. You either need CU/SM or a border. The writings been on the wall since the day after the ref. But everyone's trying to pretend it's not there.

I did enjoy Peter Bone on politics live. Stephen Kinnock looked as though as his eyes would have rolled out of his head if he'd let them.

nicoala1 · 30/01/2019 22:00

The backstop will not be made redundant.

They have to deal with that now.

umpteennamechanges · 30/01/2019 22:06

Does anyone have that link to the big list of impacts Brexit has had so far?

Jellykat · 30/01/2019 22:11

De-lurking and even though this might make me seem dense, theres something really really puzzling me..
Why didn't TM ascertain what parliament would pass BEFORE she went to the EU and signed off the agreement??
Seems illogical to me to check after the event, am i missing something?

umpteennamechanges · 30/01/2019 22:13

You're not missing anything Jellycat. That would've been eminently sensible; but not what she did.

DangermousesSidekick · 30/01/2019 22:15

Not setting off A50 until there was a roadmap would have been sensible too. Sense is not reigning over Britain.

Loletta · 30/01/2019 22:16

More Brexit poetry

Westminstenders: Waiting for a Valentines Miracle
umpteennamechanges · 30/01/2019 22:19

I'm off to bed shortly but Lord Foster of Bath (LD) is making some pretty good points about the details of the WA re: debate on the Trade Bill.

I think I may try to find the transcript of some of these debates as they are getting into much more useful detail than the 'blah blah blah' we've been hearing in the HoC. Mainly I suspect because they don't have to worry about votes and so don't have to pull some weird party line sound bite type crap.

Jellykat · 30/01/2019 22:22

Thank you, i've been questioning whether i'm losing the plot.. convinced no-one could possibly be so stupid as to do it the wrong way around so obviously!! Confused

TatianaLarina · 30/01/2019 22:25

Has anyone posted this FB piece by Peston:

www.facebook.com/1498276767163730/posts/almost-more-interesting-than-what-corbyn-and-the-pm-said-to-each-other-this-afte/2266812676976798/

Milne, Murphy and McCluskey trying to engineer a Brexit Deal that Labour could support by 29 March?

umpteennamechanges · 30/01/2019 22:26

I'm going back a bit but I think someone was wondering out loud why we can't use Grimsby and other ports rather than Dover.

I need to double check my understanding but I believe the issue is that not all the ports we have can deal with Roll On / Roll Off (RORO) ferries which is what most of the goods come over on.

Not to say they never could (and I'm no expert so I don't know what is needed) but they can't at the moment and whatever would need to be in place takes more than 58 days or whatever we have left...

TatianaLarina · 30/01/2019 22:27

Link fail. Click here, then click on his FB link:

twitter.com/peston/status/1090671946449281024?s=21

1tisILeClerc · 30/01/2019 22:29

{Why didn't TM ascertain what parliament would pass BEFORE she went to the EU and signed off the agreement??}
You could also ask why the 'Chequers deal' that the Tories wrote with 12 'requirements' had at least 11 of them that they KNEW beforehand would not be remotely acceptable to the EU. Most if not all EU rules and regulations are available online in all 27 languages so there is no excuse for the UK to deliberately writing an impossible document.