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Brexit

Westminstenders: Waiting for a Valentines Miracle

995 replies

RedToothBrush · 29/01/2019 23:50

Guess what folks, we get to do it all over again for Valentine's Day!

Bet you are all looking forward to that.

May has already been told by the EU its a non-starter, and with there being a vote scheduled again in a fortnight, there is little incentive for the EU to shift. And every incentive to just let us stew and think things over.

We are trying to renege on what we signed up to with the Withdrawal Agreement. Which only proves the EU needs the Backstop. Our credibility as a nation to do deals with is shot through the floor. With everyone but those who think they can stitch us up at least.

There is one key development with the latest vote:

The emergence of a new Brexit voting block within Labour, I believe led by Carole Flint. They are supporting Brexit and are prepared to vote with the government and against the Labour Whip.

This negates the Tory Rebel block, meaning May has a majority if she has the ERG on board - this being a big if, of course.

Many other potential rebels who threatened to quit from government, were detered from doing so by a promise from May and the promise that they had another show down on the 14th they could use to block No Deal.

In not quiting they are showing they are committed to some deal brokered by May and not an alternative by Parliament. This is important. There may be no realistic opportunity for anything else to be realistically be tabled by anyone else now.

I don't think they will quit now, if they can see a potential deal present itself.

The way forward now looks to be the Withdrawal Agreement or No Deal only. Keep this in mind and in focus. This will become an increasing pressure and increasingly definitive. Revoke is still on the table, but I just can't see May doing it. Ever.

Whether May can get the EU to back down on the backstop seems unlikely. Its going to be more backwards and forwards on it. Before it becomes obvious its going nowhere. Its just theatre.

What the ERG do next is important. My best guess is they will split into No Deal Hardliners and last minute WA Compromisers. This will leave May short of a majority, but not as far as she has been especially with Labour resolve weakening. I think she may yet get her deal over the line with Labour support of some sort. Probably unofficial rather than direct from public instruction the front bench.

Here's the logic: Corbyn has said he will now discuss matter with her. He still wants to pin Brexit on her and destroy her, but he still wants Brexit and he still wants to keep the Labour Party together despite its differences over Brexit. All without making a clear Labour policy. How does he do this?

The same way he handled the Immigration Bill is possibly the best guess. Plus how can he stop his rebels...? {innocent face emojy} He gets to look tough against May outwardly and make lots of Remainy noises without more outward support for a particular policy. Those awful stupid Northerner MP (or MPs from backward towns if you live in the Metropolian North) who know nothing and screwed Remainia. It plays people off along splits in society, in the hope they don't notice Corbyn really orchestrated it. His MPs in leave areas get to look Leave without consequence, and if it all goes wrong he still get to pin it on May. Thus saving his marginals in both the North and the South 'cos those evil Tories'. And he does stop No Deal in the process. Yes, call me cynical, but thats how he could try and game it. Ultimately Corbyn and May do have certain aligned mutual interests, afterall.

And given there are few alternatives now there apart from Revoke or No Deal, once you think it through doesn't seem as far fetched as it initally sounds. Corbyn certainly seems to have form for it. His priorities are his Party, managing his north / south cultural divide and being seen to kick the Tories.

It'll go to the wire whatever happens, and its hard to see many ways out of this now. We are running out of time, opportunities and options. Of course, this works for May and has been her plan for some time. The question is merely, if she is serious about preventing no deal (and I believe she is) how she persuades either the ERG or Labour to back her.

Afterall, after the WA is done and dusted there is still everything to play for.

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RedToothBrush · 30/01/2019 18:43

The HoC could have a vote and make it legally binding for the PM to revoke. If the PM didn't she would be breaking the law. But the HoC would have to find a way to hold a legally binding vote in the first place, and then a majority would have to vote for it.

As I understand it, the a50 legislation transferred the power of a50 to the PM and as such she could trigger it, and the idea is that since the PM has the power of a50, she also has the power to revoke without consulting the HoC.

However there is some disagreement over this, and some believe that May would have to consult parliament to revoke.

We don't conclusively KNOW because there hasn't been a court ruling to determine this.

In practice, if it comes to revocation assume the PM can do it by herself, simply because from a legal point of view there isn't time to raise questions over it, and a retrospective court case which forced a belated vote in the HoC would create a near unimaginable situation where MPs have a gun to their heads to agree with the PM or cause a rift with European on a scale that doesn't bare thinking about for breaking our aggreement with them.

My point is, political power rather than legal power is much more important than when a50 was triggered.

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RedToothBrush · 30/01/2019 18:49

www.buzzfeed.com/alexwickham/ministers-think-a-permanent-customs-union-with-the-eu-is?bftwnews&utm_term=4ldqpgc#4ldqpgc
Ministers Think A Permanent Customs Union With The EU Is The Price For Solving The Backstop

“It would not be fig leaf, it would be a fig tree.”

“It will not fly with the ERG,” a senior Brexiteer told BuzzFeed News, referring to the European Research Group of hardline Tory Eurosceptics.

But senior Tories on both the Leave and Remain sides told BuzzFeed News that there was a way the plan could win the support of the Democratic Unionist Party, some Brexiteers, and the Labour Party, whose Brexit policy is based on joining a customs union with Brussels.

DUP sources have previously indicated they could support a deal that keeps the whole of the UK in a customs union with the EU if it removed the threat of the backstop.

Two prominent Brexiteers told BuzzFeed News a commitment to some form of customs union in the political declaration would be preferable to the backstop.

“We cannot leave the backstop. A permanent customs union you could leave,” said one, referring to the fact any commitment to a customs union would come in the non-legally binding political declaration, rather than the legally-binding withdrawal agreement.

wanders off to look up the meaning of the word 'permanent'

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BigChocFrenzy · 30/01/2019 18:52

If the HoC voted to order the PM to Revoke, I expect she's follow the law
BUT
where would those votes come from ?

If Labour had any other leader, then maybe Labour would put country first and be joined by SNP, LDems (-1) and 20+ Tory rebels.

As it is, almost all his own party would have to disobey him - v unlikely
Even if ⅔ did, there wouldn't be enough tory rebels to carry the vote

noblegiraffe · 30/01/2019 18:54

That Peston thing about the meeting between Corbyn and May, suggesting a customs union and relationship with the single market - given that the WA took 2 years, how the blazes do Labour expect to be able to negotiate that by March 29th?

BiglyBadgers · 30/01/2019 18:55

bigly You're right: with Corbyn I should always assume cockup rather than conspiracy

I think this is usually safest ;)

borntobequiet · 30/01/2019 18:58

If Corbyn thinks it’s unacceptable that the UK can't unilaterally exit the backstop, what did he learn from all those talks with Sinn Fein? Or anyone else he spoke to in Ireland?
I’m beginning to understand that he filters everything through his own version of Socialism, whatever that is (does anybody know?).

IceOnTheCar · 30/01/2019 19:00

If Corbyn thinks it’s unacceptable that the UK can't unilaterally exit the backstop, what did he learn from all those talks with Sinn Fein? Or anyone else he spoke to in Ireland?

I have been thinking this also. I wonder what percentage of Irish he had in his constituency then and now?

RedToothBrush · 30/01/2019 19:01

where would those votes come from ?

Exactly. Its not going to happen. Which means only the PM is the only hope of revocation.

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BigChocFrenzy · 30/01/2019 19:01

red The changes, permanent CU etc, that the EU would accept would only be to the PD, the future framework

The WA itself - with permanent backstop - would stand

The precise isssue in contention is that the Tory Brexiters want any backstop to be temporary, i.e. chocolate teapot
and that Ireland won't accept this - & that rEU backs them fully.

However much the Brexiters succeed in obfuscating that for their Remainer colleagues, they won't fool the EU negotiators or EU Commission
They can temporarily fool a few E27 politicians, but Barnier & Weyand would soon warn them of what it really means.

PerverseConverse · 30/01/2019 19:01

@RedToothBrush so BINO?

DGRossetti · 30/01/2019 19:02

I wish there were bookies that could take bets on this thread ... (preens)

I spotted the "permanent" dichotomy ages ago ....

BigChocFrenzy · 30/01/2019 19:05

Sarah-Jane Mee@skysarahjane

Cabinet are keeping a sense of humour.

Reports @michaelgove said those MPs opposing @theresa_may deal are like "middle aged swingers waiting for Scarlett Johansson to arrive"

"Pierce Bronsnan" said Amber Rudd

"Scarlett Johansson on a unicorn" said another

Who will save #brexit?

< well, so long as the Cabinet are having a laugh .... >

BigChocFrenzy · 30/01/2019 19:07

The European Investment Bank has said it will ramp up financial support for Ireland on a number of fronts to help the country prepare for Brexit

Good to have friends who actually help ....

https://www.rte.ie/amp/1026462/?

colouringinpro · 30/01/2019 19:10

Just seen Corbyn on c4 news. He hasn't a f*cking idea what he's doing and it's showing. FFS.

BigChocFrenzy · 30/01/2019 19:12

Blimey, Corbyn asked a good question (memorised from his minders, but at least he delivered it)

Heather Stewartt@GuardianHeather*

Both May and Corbyn on spiky form today - on Steve Barclay’s reference to technological solutions,
JC asks, “What new technologies does she think will emerge in the next 58 days?”

BigChocFrenzy · 30/01/2019 19:15

Seamus Leheny@Freight_NI

UKG Border Planning Group & Border Delivery Group was due to meet with key stakeholders at Stormont, 10.30 this morning to discuss contingency planning for #CrashOutBrexit

At 5.30 yesterday evening it was inexplicably cancelled.

How can we plan if we don't know what to plan for?

colouringinpro · 30/01/2019 19:18

Philippe Lamberts MEP (EU parliament Brexit group) "They must be out of their mind.... hard border in NI will be the UKs fault .... no-deal scenario is the most likely at the moment"

colouringinpro · 30/01/2019 19:19

I wish I could tell the EU how I feel!

BigChocFrenzy · 30/01/2019 19:20

Increasingly blunt speaking from Irish deputy PM:

Today Sean O'Rourke*@TodaySOR*

'It's like saying give me what I want or I'm jumping out the window' - Tánaiste Simon Coveney tells @TodaySOR**

the latest British Brexit moves are "extraordinary".
#TodaySOR @RTERadio1

colouringinpro · 30/01/2019 19:20

A Democrat " I have far more sympathy for the 35,000 who died in the Troubles.... than Theresa May (sic)"

colouringinpro · 30/01/2019 19:21

Brendan Boyle.

prettybird · 30/01/2019 19:21

The other point that Lamberts made this morning was (and the ERG/Brexiters just don't get Sad) that, yes, No Deal is damaging to the EU - but that dismantling its core principles would be even more damaging. So on given that choice, they will, reluctantly but unavoidably, go with the No deal option.

It's not rocket science Confused

IrenetheQuaint · 30/01/2019 19:22

I thought the backstop involved single market alignment for NI, as well as the customs union? Not sure a permanent customs union alone would be enough (though obviously a good start, and would have the secondary pleasure of making the Department for International Trade even more pointless than it is already).

colouringinpro · 30/01/2019 19:22

No, it's not. It's so refreshing listening to a politician talking clear sense. Wish the EU could send a rescue party!!!