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Brexit

Westminstenders: Waiting for a Valentines Miracle

995 replies

RedToothBrush · 29/01/2019 23:50

Guess what folks, we get to do it all over again for Valentine's Day!

Bet you are all looking forward to that.

May has already been told by the EU its a non-starter, and with there being a vote scheduled again in a fortnight, there is little incentive for the EU to shift. And every incentive to just let us stew and think things over.

We are trying to renege on what we signed up to with the Withdrawal Agreement. Which only proves the EU needs the Backstop. Our credibility as a nation to do deals with is shot through the floor. With everyone but those who think they can stitch us up at least.

There is one key development with the latest vote:

The emergence of a new Brexit voting block within Labour, I believe led by Carole Flint. They are supporting Brexit and are prepared to vote with the government and against the Labour Whip.

This negates the Tory Rebel block, meaning May has a majority if she has the ERG on board - this being a big if, of course.

Many other potential rebels who threatened to quit from government, were detered from doing so by a promise from May and the promise that they had another show down on the 14th they could use to block No Deal.

In not quiting they are showing they are committed to some deal brokered by May and not an alternative by Parliament. This is important. There may be no realistic opportunity for anything else to be realistically be tabled by anyone else now.

I don't think they will quit now, if they can see a potential deal present itself.

The way forward now looks to be the Withdrawal Agreement or No Deal only. Keep this in mind and in focus. This will become an increasing pressure and increasingly definitive. Revoke is still on the table, but I just can't see May doing it. Ever.

Whether May can get the EU to back down on the backstop seems unlikely. Its going to be more backwards and forwards on it. Before it becomes obvious its going nowhere. Its just theatre.

What the ERG do next is important. My best guess is they will split into No Deal Hardliners and last minute WA Compromisers. This will leave May short of a majority, but not as far as she has been especially with Labour resolve weakening. I think she may yet get her deal over the line with Labour support of some sort. Probably unofficial rather than direct from public instruction the front bench.

Here's the logic: Corbyn has said he will now discuss matter with her. He still wants to pin Brexit on her and destroy her, but he still wants Brexit and he still wants to keep the Labour Party together despite its differences over Brexit. All without making a clear Labour policy. How does he do this?

The same way he handled the Immigration Bill is possibly the best guess. Plus how can he stop his rebels...? {innocent face emojy} He gets to look tough against May outwardly and make lots of Remainy noises without more outward support for a particular policy. Those awful stupid Northerner MP (or MPs from backward towns if you live in the Metropolian North) who know nothing and screwed Remainia. It plays people off along splits in society, in the hope they don't notice Corbyn really orchestrated it. His MPs in leave areas get to look Leave without consequence, and if it all goes wrong he still get to pin it on May. Thus saving his marginals in both the North and the South 'cos those evil Tories'. And he does stop No Deal in the process. Yes, call me cynical, but thats how he could try and game it. Ultimately Corbyn and May do have certain aligned mutual interests, afterall.

And given there are few alternatives now there apart from Revoke or No Deal, once you think it through doesn't seem as far fetched as it initally sounds. Corbyn certainly seems to have form for it. His priorities are his Party, managing his north / south cultural divide and being seen to kick the Tories.

It'll go to the wire whatever happens, and its hard to see many ways out of this now. We are running out of time, opportunities and options. Of course, this works for May and has been her plan for some time. The question is merely, if she is serious about preventing no deal (and I believe she is) how she persuades either the ERG or Labour to back her.

Afterall, after the WA is done and dusted there is still everything to play for.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
23
MargoLovebutter · 30/01/2019 17:07

BigChocFrenzy, I didn't think it was as clear cut as that,. However, I'm not bothered really who does it and sadly think that the chances of it happening are remote.

DGRossetti · 30/01/2019 17:09

Weren't Barclays Tory party cheerleaders at one point ?

I wonder how many companies, whilst suing the UK government in open court, will also be privately wanting their donations back from the Tories ? I know I would. Because there must have been an awaful lot of businesses pumping money into the Tory party on the premise "trust us, nothing will really happen".

I wonder who the new party of business will be. And whether history students of the future will have essays about whether the Tory party was really the party of business, or privilege - the two being distinct, if often confused.

BigChocFrenzy · 30/01/2019 17:10

Revoke has about a 1% chance, imo

I'm not sure if that counts as a unicorn
but does mean it is very dangerous if Remainers insist the choice is Revoke vs No Deal

It isn't.
In the HoC - which is what matters - it is WA vs No Deal

(and in any case, since May is the only one who can Revoke, she could now obfuscate any HoC vote to do so, until time runs out)

bellinisurge · 30/01/2019 17:11

Buzzfeed report saying Ministers are now open to a customs union as an alternative to the backstop. Which E.U. can accept subject to .....
FOM isn't part of that but a sort of version of it is. Apparently.

Destiel · 30/01/2019 17:13

You got me hazard 😂
unhinged cackle

BigChocFrenzy · 30/01/2019 17:13

If May knows she won't Revoke, then she is telling the truth:

The only options are No Deal vs WA

DGRossetti · 30/01/2019 17:14

Buzzfeed report saying Ministers are now open to a customs union as an alternative to the backstop

Bit as we've learned, the ERG are running the show.

What's their take ? JRM back from tiffin yet ?

Greensleeves · 30/01/2019 17:15

Peter Bone said this morning "there is no way the Conservative Party will accept a customs union".

icannotremember · 30/01/2019 17:16

Buzzfeed report saying Ministers are now open to a customs union as an alternative to the backstop

I will laugh myself sick if we end up with the Brexit deal JC has been saying he wants

BigChocFrenzy · 30/01/2019 17:17

DG I expect Ireland to pick up a lot of business from the UK the next few years
and pick up all the new investment that would have gone to the UK
that they just have to weather 2-3 tough years financially before their growth rockets again.

They'll need a few immigrants to fill all those jobs ... 😏

DGRossetti · 30/01/2019 17:17

Peter Bone said this morning "there is no way the Conservative Party will accept a customs union".

Theresa May said in 2017 there wouldn't be a General Election.

So believing politicians is a moveable feast, it seems. Anyway, someone give that Bone a dog.

MarshaBradyo · 30/01/2019 17:17

Thanks for the bolded part in your op I’m losing the will to keep up and appreciate statements on what is more likely or less likely as we go along

LittlePickleHead · 30/01/2019 17:18

Lewis Goodall

@lewis_goodall
Labour source tells me they were surprised at how engaged/detailed meeting was between May and Corbyn. Said their impression was PM is trying to secure backup strategy of Labour votes when/if backstop changes cannot be reached. Corbyn and PM’s office have agreed to meet again.

33
4:50 PM - Jan 30, 2019

Lewis Goodall

@lewis_goodall
BREAK: Jeremy Corbyn tells me:

  1. his talks with PM were “serious” and “engaged”.
  2. he thinks PM’s renegotiation strategy is a cover “for running down the clock”.
  3. but the backstop isn’t acceptable to him either.
  4. he’d consider looking again at Cooper amendment in mid Feb.

23
5:04 PM - Jan 30, 2019

Lewis Goodall

@lewis_goodall
Replying to @lewis_goodall
5) he was “very disappointed” with Labour rebels who voted with the Tories, especially on the Brady amendment. When I asked if they’d face disciplinary matters he replied “we’ll be in discussions with them.”

12
5:05 PM - Jan 30, 2019

thecatfromjapan · 30/01/2019 17:18

🦄

BigChocFrenzy · 30/01/2019 17:19

I would believe very few MPs
Peter Bone is not one of them

DGRossetti · 30/01/2019 17:19

They'll need a few immigrants to fill all those jobs

I wonder how commutable it would be from the Midlands ?

Greensleeves · 30/01/2019 17:19

I agree Rosetti, but the expression of burning zealotry on his face as he tried to say it nonchalantly was bloody funny

The Tory Brexiteer headbangers are completely nuts

Motheroffourdragons · 30/01/2019 17:20

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This has been deleted by MNHQ to protect the privacy of the user.

DGRossetti · 30/01/2019 17:22

@Motheroffourdragons

A very long post to demonstrate that you're not the sort of person who refused to vote LibDem over a single issue, which is who I was gunning for Grin

BigChocFrenzy · 30/01/2019 17:23

It is only the WA itself - and the backstop - that the EU won't change

Moving to a CU just means changing the PD, the EU said they would welcome that change

However, Tories would hate it - so maybe May is just using Corbyn to scare them for the Valentine's votes

Motheroffourdragons · 30/01/2019 17:24

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ to protect the privacy of the user.

Greensleeves · 30/01/2019 17:25

The LibDems will never be a party of government. They are a disparate clutch of gutless whiners with no integrity and no firm political or social principles. Their Remain stance is as opportunistic as all their other cynical attempts to carve out a niche and an identity for themselves. If taking the opposite position would have afforded a better chance of clawing back a few seats, they would have done so.

A vote for them is a wasted vote. Might as well wipe your arse on your ballot paper.

QueenieInFrance · 30/01/2019 17:25

www.buzzfeed.com/alexwickham/ministers-think-a-permanent-customs-union-with-the-eu-is

Ministers Think A Permanent Customs Union With The EU Is The Price For Solving The Backstop

I could live with that.
A shame it seems that ministers are against it (or are they??)

DGRossetti · 30/01/2019 17:27

I was referring to the UK Liberal Democrats - formerly the Liberal Party and Social Democrats before uniting, and both of whom I voted for in the 80s. Should have made that clear, sorry.

lonelyplanetmum · 30/01/2019 17:35

they let their voters down big time

But both other parties are letting lots of voters down more Hugely?

If the LibDems are promising remain- for that reason alone they have to be forgiven the past. Voting for them is Hobsons' choice isn't it? Or even pretend in polls you would vote for them. If the polls showed a huge swing to the LibDems then Labour and the Tories would change their policy. Even if the LibDems were elected (unlikely) it's only for 5 years.

To be honest if there was a GE, if the LIbDems manifesto was to remain in the EU on current terms then the '48%' should all vote for them surely? Even if the manifesto also said the Royal family had to self identify as Kardashians wouldn't it be worth it to put the pound and the economy back on track?