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Brexit

Westminstenders: Amendment Fail

977 replies

RedToothBrush · 29/01/2019 09:26

The EU's deputy chief negotiator Sabine Weyand said yesterday that there is a high risk of the UK crashing out of the EU without a deal by accident.

She also made a point of saying that the Withdrawal Agreement was shaped hugely by the parameters set by the UK and not the EU.

'We’re not going to reopen the Agreement. The result of the negotiation has been very much shaped by the UK negotiators, much more than they actually get credit for. This is a bit like snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. The backstop was very much shaped by UK.'

She also made the observation that
'In fact much of the conversation is uninhibited by any knowledge of what is actually in the WA.'

She reaffirmed the point that from the EU point of view that a time-limit to the Irish backstop defeated the purpose of having one. Remember the point of the backstop is to protect the integrity of the GFA.

Tonight is shaping up as follows:
Murrison II has been dropped in favour of the much more vague Brady Amendment. The government are now backing this, which would tie May into having to go back to the EU and talk about the backstop. Which if you refer to the above, was instigated and agreed to in no small part by May's own team.

The ERG are not happy about this, as they think they are being stitched up to be fully signed up to the WA.

The Brady amendment is being sold as enabling a mystery alternative solution. Which the government have said "well you'll have to vote for the amendment to find out what it is". Yes really.

This leaves the ERG split as to what to do. (Remember May needs pretty much a full house of support for a majority). And the DUP, after Sammy Wilson said today it was time for us to 'exploit the chaos of the EU', are also holding off making a decision.

The ERG then instead said that they will support an amendment by the PM herself which is crystal clear in its intent to remove the backstop and reopen the WA. Something May had ruled out. Then the ERG came up with the Malthouse Compromise and May has suddenly said that she will unilaterally reopen the WA.... Despite the EU ruling this out yesterday.

Remember Weyland said about the concept of Max Fac as an alternative to the backstop:
'We looked at every border on this earth, every border EU has with a 3rd country - there’s simply no way you can do away with checks & controls. The negotiators have not been able to explain them to us and that’s not their fault, it’s because they don’t exist.'

Before stressing:
'I still think the Political Declaration is a work of art because it bridges the unbridgeable and it leaves choices open. It doesn’t pretend to be able to make choices that have not been made in the UK. That’s the area where we do have room for manoeuvre.'

In other words, this is all in OUR hands to work out between ourselves and not the EU. We STILL have to decide what we want. But it STILL has to answer certain questions and issues that the EU have.

As far as numbers stand, the latest for the Brady was that between 20 (according to the gov whips) and 40 (according to the ERG) ERG rebels were holding out, whilst up to 10 remain tories are thinking of rebelling. Thats not anywhere near enough for May without large numbers of Labour rebels. BUT that was before the Malthouse Compromise came out.

Meanwhile the Cooper-Boles amendment has finally got a three line whip supporting it from Labour. But there is no word on what Tories might do. The last word on numbers was that there were just 3 votes in it - so it needs ALL MPs even the lazy ones to show up. Its proper squeaky bum time on that one. It even raises the possibility of the spectacle of the Speaker voting. And as previously mentioned if it passes as well as Brady it becomes sticky as to how it would work, the EU might not go for it anyway and it doesn't necessarily stop No Deal is certain situations.

In reality the worst outcome from the amendment votes today would be that nothing passes. It doesn't move us forward in anyway. Even Brady passing would lead us somewhere rather than the state of purgatory we are currently mired in.

Might the new 'Maltman Compromise' between Mogg, Morgan and Baker complete with its 'frontstop' instead of backstop and its magic new protocol which everyone will agree to but is completely be devoid of detail, be the way forward instead? Boris Johnson has declared it a breakthrough.

Of course not. Its best described as everyone's unicorns strapped together and its complete lack of compatibility with the EU's criteria make it a time wasting exercise just to make the Tories feel good about themselves and united in their belief that the EU is being mean to them.

Its almost as if those writing the Malthouse Compromise didn't understand what the EU have been saying all along...

In reality its a political device to whip May with and to waste time and to try and frame the EU as bad guys once again, not a serious proposal. But with widespread support within the Tory party May is going to find it hard to kill it off, even when the EU do.

If you weren't already going cross eyed by this point, this should finish you off. The Brady Amendment is vague enough to accomodate the Malthouse Compromise within it. Which might be the thing that gets the Brady Amendment through in the end anyway. Who knows?

If you've managed to follow all this even vaguely, then you are doing well. Please do ask questions if you are confused as hell, we'll all try and make some sense of it together!!!

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19
OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 29/01/2019 13:57

Jessica Elgot
‏*@jessicaelgot*
New - Seven amendment’s chosen, Labour, SNP, Grieve (days to debate Brexit options), Cooper-Boles(bill to extend art 50), Reeves (art 50 extension), Spelman (take no deal off table) and Brady (replace backstop)

Somerville · 29/01/2019 13:58

I didnt hear Malthouse amendment mentioned but toddler was talking at same time. Anyone?

mrslaughan · 29/01/2019 13:58

@PostNotInHaste also the ref criminality - that's homegrown from what I have seen - let's talk about uk gov policy on austerity and how that's tucked the country over.....
racism I can't stand it!!!

OhYouBadBadKitten · 29/01/2019 14:01

Need a new flow chart!

OhYouBadBadKitten · 29/01/2019 14:02

next meaningless vote 14th Feb.

Buteo · 29/01/2019 14:02

PMK ... with The Brady Bunch

Westminstenders: Amendment Fail
OhYouBadBadKitten · 29/01/2019 14:04
Grin

Is anyone else's mn grinding to a halt?

AwdBovril · 29/01/2019 14:07

I feel like I'm watching the destruction of the UK in slow motion as a result of our corrupt and inept governnent, while many, many people look on in helpless rage and sadness. Needed to get that out. Heaven help us all.

This, pretty much.

I am losing faith in the human race. Feeling particularly down today after reading about that 17y/o who was found guilty of raping a 6y/o for 2 years, but completely let off on the basis that it might hurt his career. Just discovered that DH & I no longer qualify for assistance with the cost of spectacles, but we would do if we lived in the next town over (despite my being disabled & we are on a very low income, don't even qualify for WTC). Also I have a steaming cold, which isn't helping.

AwdBovril · 29/01/2019 14:08

OYBBK - Yes! Thought it was my crappy internet.

SusanWalker · 29/01/2019 14:12

Sylvia Hermon just called TM nebulous.

Grin
BirdyBedtime · 29/01/2019 14:12

I've been following but not posting up to now but I really really don't understand what Brady actually means - "alternative arrangements to avoid a hard border". Surely if an alternative to the backstop exists someone would already have identified it???

prettybird · 29/01/2019 14:12

I'm just so grateful that I live in Scotland and have a genuine and electable EU supporting alternative Smile

I don't have a clue what I'd do if I lived in England Confused ...... but May is going a brilliant job at increasing support for the LibDems Grin with her "80% of electorate voted for Brexit manifestos" Angry probably deliberately as she sees that as her best hope to ensure the survival of the Conservatives in power Hmm

TokyoSushi · 29/01/2019 14:15

Yes @OhYouBadBadKitten and I need it on my PC as I'm 'busy on my computer at work!'

Somerville · 29/01/2019 14:17

Sylvia Hermon:
'The Pm is trying to encourage this house to vote for an amendment that uses the words alternative arrangements to avoid a hard border on the island of Ireland. Forgive me, PM, if I say that those words are nebulous. SHe has a duty to spell out before we vote what those alternative arrangements are. And how on earth the EU27 are expected to respond to this by Brexit day.'

The only voice for the people of NI in the British parliament right now.

PerverseConverse · 29/01/2019 14:19

PMK

ElenadeClermont · 29/01/2019 14:22

Isn't the Malthouse amendment just Brady + fluff?

Somerville · 29/01/2019 14:24

Cooper drilling down into future opportunities to get rid of no deal. Very slowly and simply in mainly words of one syllable. May giving her usual weak and wobbly word salad.

OhYouBadBadKitten · 29/01/2019 14:26

weasel words by May now about the NI border.

lonelyplanetmum · 29/01/2019 14:26

Weezol - 'fish rug' was the first thing I've laughed at for days!

umpteennamechanges · 29/01/2019 14:29

I was still on the old thread....

Malthouse wasn't put forward as an amendment as only agreed at the last second...

Somerville · 29/01/2019 14:30

FFS Nicky Morgan Hmm

Somerville · 29/01/2019 14:33

May. '...worked to bring forward a serious proposal which we're engaing with sincerely and positively.'

About Malthouse.

Fucking hell. Serious proposal. When it's based on all the claptrap that has been shown up as damaging bollocks already. The bare faced lies from this so-called Christian is getting worse by the day (that isn't a dig at Christians - I'm one myself).

1tisILeClerc · 29/01/2019 14:35

{weasel words by May now about the NI border.}
Does that mean HMRC are going to train weasels to check lorries that are going over the 'non' border?

I can just see the EU negotiating team heading off the the bar shaking their heads in disbelief. Essentially every time TM opens her mouth or any MPs say anything at all.

MN usually slows down around 9:30 pm most evenings from what I see.

prettybird · 29/01/2019 14:36

Listening to the debate and hearing a Labour Lexiter saying that the 17.4 million "must" be heard - and it brought back recollections of 1984 and "unpeople" Hmm

The 16.1 million who voted Remain have become unpeople Sad

lonelyplanetmum · 29/01/2019 14:36

Weasel words by May

Weasel really is an insult. As a complete aside a useless fact I read once is that weasels are one of the few animals where the females can delay a fertilised egg from developing for up to 10 months after mating.The Disgusting fact is that they are reproductively mature from 3 weeks old, when they are still bald and blind. "So an adult male entering a nest to mate with the adult female, will also fertilise the newborn daughters so all females are pregnant from the day they leave the nest." Disgusting isn't it.

So we think things are bad but being a weasel is worse. I just checked and think it's stoats actually. Sorry Weezol.