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Brexit

Westminstenders: Amendment Fail

977 replies

RedToothBrush · 29/01/2019 09:26

The EU's deputy chief negotiator Sabine Weyand said yesterday that there is a high risk of the UK crashing out of the EU without a deal by accident.

She also made a point of saying that the Withdrawal Agreement was shaped hugely by the parameters set by the UK and not the EU.

'We’re not going to reopen the Agreement. The result of the negotiation has been very much shaped by the UK negotiators, much more than they actually get credit for. This is a bit like snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. The backstop was very much shaped by UK.'

She also made the observation that
'In fact much of the conversation is uninhibited by any knowledge of what is actually in the WA.'

She reaffirmed the point that from the EU point of view that a time-limit to the Irish backstop defeated the purpose of having one. Remember the point of the backstop is to protect the integrity of the GFA.

Tonight is shaping up as follows:
Murrison II has been dropped in favour of the much more vague Brady Amendment. The government are now backing this, which would tie May into having to go back to the EU and talk about the backstop. Which if you refer to the above, was instigated and agreed to in no small part by May's own team.

The ERG are not happy about this, as they think they are being stitched up to be fully signed up to the WA.

The Brady amendment is being sold as enabling a mystery alternative solution. Which the government have said "well you'll have to vote for the amendment to find out what it is". Yes really.

This leaves the ERG split as to what to do. (Remember May needs pretty much a full house of support for a majority). And the DUP, after Sammy Wilson said today it was time for us to 'exploit the chaos of the EU', are also holding off making a decision.

The ERG then instead said that they will support an amendment by the PM herself which is crystal clear in its intent to remove the backstop and reopen the WA. Something May had ruled out. Then the ERG came up with the Malthouse Compromise and May has suddenly said that she will unilaterally reopen the WA.... Despite the EU ruling this out yesterday.

Remember Weyland said about the concept of Max Fac as an alternative to the backstop:
'We looked at every border on this earth, every border EU has with a 3rd country - there’s simply no way you can do away with checks & controls. The negotiators have not been able to explain them to us and that’s not their fault, it’s because they don’t exist.'

Before stressing:
'I still think the Political Declaration is a work of art because it bridges the unbridgeable and it leaves choices open. It doesn’t pretend to be able to make choices that have not been made in the UK. That’s the area where we do have room for manoeuvre.'

In other words, this is all in OUR hands to work out between ourselves and not the EU. We STILL have to decide what we want. But it STILL has to answer certain questions and issues that the EU have.

As far as numbers stand, the latest for the Brady was that between 20 (according to the gov whips) and 40 (according to the ERG) ERG rebels were holding out, whilst up to 10 remain tories are thinking of rebelling. Thats not anywhere near enough for May without large numbers of Labour rebels. BUT that was before the Malthouse Compromise came out.

Meanwhile the Cooper-Boles amendment has finally got a three line whip supporting it from Labour. But there is no word on what Tories might do. The last word on numbers was that there were just 3 votes in it - so it needs ALL MPs even the lazy ones to show up. Its proper squeaky bum time on that one. It even raises the possibility of the spectacle of the Speaker voting. And as previously mentioned if it passes as well as Brady it becomes sticky as to how it would work, the EU might not go for it anyway and it doesn't necessarily stop No Deal is certain situations.

In reality the worst outcome from the amendment votes today would be that nothing passes. It doesn't move us forward in anyway. Even Brady passing would lead us somewhere rather than the state of purgatory we are currently mired in.

Might the new 'Maltman Compromise' between Mogg, Morgan and Baker complete with its 'frontstop' instead of backstop and its magic new protocol which everyone will agree to but is completely be devoid of detail, be the way forward instead? Boris Johnson has declared it a breakthrough.

Of course not. Its best described as everyone's unicorns strapped together and its complete lack of compatibility with the EU's criteria make it a time wasting exercise just to make the Tories feel good about themselves and united in their belief that the EU is being mean to them.

Its almost as if those writing the Malthouse Compromise didn't understand what the EU have been saying all along...

In reality its a political device to whip May with and to waste time and to try and frame the EU as bad guys once again, not a serious proposal. But with widespread support within the Tory party May is going to find it hard to kill it off, even when the EU do.

If you weren't already going cross eyed by this point, this should finish you off. The Brady Amendment is vague enough to accomodate the Malthouse Compromise within it. Which might be the thing that gets the Brady Amendment through in the end anyway. Who knows?

If you've managed to follow all this even vaguely, then you are doing well. Please do ask questions if you are confused as hell, we'll all try and make some sense of it together!!!

Westministenders Abbreviation FAQ

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BigChocFrenzy · 30/01/2019 01:11

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LonelyandTiredandLow · 30/01/2019 01:48

Ballyhoo called JC meeting upthread ^So if I were JC I'd go to Theresa and offer Labour support for a WA with a permanent CU.

If she accepts, we all avoid no deal and are a bit happier, except the ERG and possibly the Tory party.

If she says no (which she will) because of the ERG and the Tory party etc etc - it'll be completely clear that it's all the Tories' fault as Labour offered their support.^

paperbeatsrock · 30/01/2019 01:53

Gee, Red, I’m sorry the people who wanted your house hurt your feelings by offering what they thought it was worth rather what you needed. Just goes to show how people value things differently, huh?

RosaPalma · 30/01/2019 04:58

Ah Lonely, what have you done putting that image of JRM in my head 😂😂

LonelyandTiredandLow · 30/01/2019 05:23
Grin Oh Nanny!
borntobequiet · 30/01/2019 07:32

Not surprised Congress is concerned.
www.irishnationalcaucus.org/congressional-friends-of-the-irish-national-caucus-114th-congress-2015-2017/
And of course Trump has form, though TBF he was prob there because it was fashionable at the time among Democrats, which I think he supported then
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/12044288/Why-this-is-the-week-that-Trump-went-toxic.html

borntobequiet · 30/01/2019 07:44

Approx 10% of Australians are of Irish descent
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Australians
About 15% of New Zealanders
www.scoop.co.nz/stories/CU1103/S00291/15-per-cent-of-kiwis-have-irish-ancestry.htm
Apparently Irish emigrants to NZ took with them some of the divisions of the home country
teara.govt.nz/en/irish/print
And it’s about 10% of US citizens (33 million citizens)
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Americans
(Not counting the descendants of Ulster Protestants or Scotch/Irish)

borntobequiet · 30/01/2019 07:46

Bully the Irish. What a great way to make friends and influence people across the world.

Sostenueto · 30/01/2019 08:05

My poxy MP voted against all amendments except the Brady one. Somehow I can't get the Brady bunch t.v. tune out of my head. How he could go against an amendment saying throw out no deal when his constituency is Tory REMAIN and against the SNP one is beyond me!AngryAngryGin

RedToothBrush · 30/01/2019 08:09

Red, I’m sorry the people who wanted your house hurt your feelings by offering what they thought it was worth rather what you needed

Na they were trying it on with everyone cos they couldn't afford anything in the area...

OP posts:
PerverseConverse · 30/01/2019 08:31

Morning all! Snow day here ⛄️ Thanks @prettybird that's the words I was looking for "decree nisi" but was too tired to think. Just catching up on the thread now.

Peregrina · 30/01/2019 08:58

Gee, Red, I’m sorry the people who wanted your house hurt your feelings by offering what they thought it was worth rather what you needed.

Perhaps you've never bought and sold a house? There comes a time when you know that people are taking the p* both buyers being cheeky and sellers being greedy. I have had the same myself - agreed a fair price and then had them come back with a lower offer 'because the roof needs replacing.' I said no, but was willing to lose the sale. I still drive past my old house - in 20 years no sign whatever of a new roof.

1tisILeClerc · 30/01/2019 09:13

{Hahahahah this is going to be as steep as learning curve as spending a month in rural SE Asia and discovering toilet paper is not a thing.}
The first chuckle of the morning!

I just can't imagine what the EU negotiators and really anyone in the EU who thinks about Brexit at all, are thinking about the newspaper and TV headlines.
It's like getting laurel and Hardy to do brain surgery on you.

borntobequiet · 30/01/2019 09:15

Gee - not a form of speech common in British English. But then Mumsnet has users worldwide, including in some surprising places.

Eatmycheese · 30/01/2019 10:22

Disgraceful that several MP’s abstained. Shitting themselves over deselection.

Sproutingcorm · 30/01/2019 11:09

Abstained? Shock. Oh no.

Scandaloso · 30/01/2019 11:22

Abstaining on this is the ultimate in lily-livered cowardice. If you don't have a strong stance on Brexit get the fuck out of parliament.

DGRossetti · 30/01/2019 11:29

Gee - not a form of speech common in British English.

Gee up ?

Gee-gees ?

Tanith · 30/01/2019 11:34

Yeah, but we don't have Westboro Baptist Church and their ilk snapping at our heels every time we say "Jesus!" so no need to abbreviate over here.

borntobequiet · 30/01/2019 13:56

Yes but gee gee, gee up comes from horses.
Gee (whiz, whatever) is an anodyne form of jeez, or Jesus. So I understand...

1tisILeClerc · 30/01/2019 14:48

And the Bee Gees of course, you can't forget them.

DGRossetti · 30/01/2019 14:51

Heck is where people who don't believe in gosh go to.

TheElementsSong · 30/01/2019 14:59

Heck is where people who don't believe in gosh go to.

GrinGrinGrin

Weezol · 30/01/2019 18:28

Where do we stand on 'Heavens to Murgatroyd!'?

Hawkinspace · 09/02/2019 18:56

@Sproutingcorm
You are seeking quotes: I recommend looking on the Twitter profile of Led by Donkeys (@bydonkeys) - apart from the sheer pleasure of visiting a site with that name it is essentially a series of quotations then and now in which the original speakers may have reason to regret their words. I freely acknowledge the Twitter handle is unjust to donkeys.