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Brexit

Westminstenders: Amendment Fail

977 replies

RedToothBrush · 29/01/2019 09:26

The EU's deputy chief negotiator Sabine Weyand said yesterday that there is a high risk of the UK crashing out of the EU without a deal by accident.

She also made a point of saying that the Withdrawal Agreement was shaped hugely by the parameters set by the UK and not the EU.

'We’re not going to reopen the Agreement. The result of the negotiation has been very much shaped by the UK negotiators, much more than they actually get credit for. This is a bit like snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. The backstop was very much shaped by UK.'

She also made the observation that
'In fact much of the conversation is uninhibited by any knowledge of what is actually in the WA.'

She reaffirmed the point that from the EU point of view that a time-limit to the Irish backstop defeated the purpose of having one. Remember the point of the backstop is to protect the integrity of the GFA.

Tonight is shaping up as follows:
Murrison II has been dropped in favour of the much more vague Brady Amendment. The government are now backing this, which would tie May into having to go back to the EU and talk about the backstop. Which if you refer to the above, was instigated and agreed to in no small part by May's own team.

The ERG are not happy about this, as they think they are being stitched up to be fully signed up to the WA.

The Brady amendment is being sold as enabling a mystery alternative solution. Which the government have said "well you'll have to vote for the amendment to find out what it is". Yes really.

This leaves the ERG split as to what to do. (Remember May needs pretty much a full house of support for a majority). And the DUP, after Sammy Wilson said today it was time for us to 'exploit the chaos of the EU', are also holding off making a decision.

The ERG then instead said that they will support an amendment by the PM herself which is crystal clear in its intent to remove the backstop and reopen the WA. Something May had ruled out. Then the ERG came up with the Malthouse Compromise and May has suddenly said that she will unilaterally reopen the WA.... Despite the EU ruling this out yesterday.

Remember Weyland said about the concept of Max Fac as an alternative to the backstop:
'We looked at every border on this earth, every border EU has with a 3rd country - there’s simply no way you can do away with checks & controls. The negotiators have not been able to explain them to us and that’s not their fault, it’s because they don’t exist.'

Before stressing:
'I still think the Political Declaration is a work of art because it bridges the unbridgeable and it leaves choices open. It doesn’t pretend to be able to make choices that have not been made in the UK. That’s the area where we do have room for manoeuvre.'

In other words, this is all in OUR hands to work out between ourselves and not the EU. We STILL have to decide what we want. But it STILL has to answer certain questions and issues that the EU have.

As far as numbers stand, the latest for the Brady was that between 20 (according to the gov whips) and 40 (according to the ERG) ERG rebels were holding out, whilst up to 10 remain tories are thinking of rebelling. Thats not anywhere near enough for May without large numbers of Labour rebels. BUT that was before the Malthouse Compromise came out.

Meanwhile the Cooper-Boles amendment has finally got a three line whip supporting it from Labour. But there is no word on what Tories might do. The last word on numbers was that there were just 3 votes in it - so it needs ALL MPs even the lazy ones to show up. Its proper squeaky bum time on that one. It even raises the possibility of the spectacle of the Speaker voting. And as previously mentioned if it passes as well as Brady it becomes sticky as to how it would work, the EU might not go for it anyway and it doesn't necessarily stop No Deal is certain situations.

In reality the worst outcome from the amendment votes today would be that nothing passes. It doesn't move us forward in anyway. Even Brady passing would lead us somewhere rather than the state of purgatory we are currently mired in.

Might the new 'Maltman Compromise' between Mogg, Morgan and Baker complete with its 'frontstop' instead of backstop and its magic new protocol which everyone will agree to but is completely be devoid of detail, be the way forward instead? Boris Johnson has declared it a breakthrough.

Of course not. Its best described as everyone's unicorns strapped together and its complete lack of compatibility with the EU's criteria make it a time wasting exercise just to make the Tories feel good about themselves and united in their belief that the EU is being mean to them.

Its almost as if those writing the Malthouse Compromise didn't understand what the EU have been saying all along...

In reality its a political device to whip May with and to waste time and to try and frame the EU as bad guys once again, not a serious proposal. But with widespread support within the Tory party May is going to find it hard to kill it off, even when the EU do.

If you weren't already going cross eyed by this point, this should finish you off. The Brady Amendment is vague enough to accomodate the Malthouse Compromise within it. Which might be the thing that gets the Brady Amendment through in the end anyway. Who knows?

If you've managed to follow all this even vaguely, then you are doing well. Please do ask questions if you are confused as hell, we'll all try and make some sense of it together!!!

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BigChocFrenzy · 29/01/2019 11:30

malthouse "compromise" is no compromise at all,
just ERG policy repackaged with enough weasel words to fool a lot of people.

They haven't actually compromised on anything for more than 3 years:
the weasel words deliberately enable them legally to get out of everything they don't like, from 1 Jan 2022

It's just an exercise in fooling enough soft Brexit / Remainy Tories to have a veneer of party unity
and above all to blame the EU for the No Deal that the ERG have always intended

HanWilk · 29/01/2019 11:37

AIUI he has repeatedly said he will not speak to journalists who try and turn up on his doorstep. Opposition leader or no, he’s entitled to his privacy imo.

I wish Momentum respected my privacy and right to not have people turn up on my doorstep too.

IsFuzzyBeagMise · 29/01/2019 11:40

I'm delurking to say thank you for these threads FlowersBrew

QuentinWinters · 29/01/2019 11:53

lpm inspired placemat there

DarlingNikita · 29/01/2019 11:54

Placemarking.

Fucking Labour. Fucking Immigration Bill. Angry

Sorry. That's as articulate as I can get at the moment.

ChiaraRimini · 29/01/2019 11:58

What an absolute shitshow.
The elephant in the room is the backstop is essential to avoid breaking the GFA as there is no prospect of a "technological solution".
It's been obvious since the start that the only way to avoid breaking the GFA is to stay in the customs union.
All this posturing is totally pointless and running the clock down for the sake of desperately trying to avoid Tory party split. It's a national disgrace.

BigChocFrenzy · 29/01/2019 12:02

Ni must be in the Single Market plus have a Customs Arrangement, in order to avoid border checks.
The SM is a prerequisite for "frictionless borders / trade"

The obsession with avoiding SM is because it requires FOM - but with the CTA that is irrelevant for NI

WhatWouldScoobyDoo · 29/01/2019 12:03

PMK

Sad
Grinchly · 29/01/2019 12:05

Sole Carpet

derxa · 29/01/2019 12:08

.

Motheroffourdragons · 29/01/2019 12:19

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ to protect the privacy of the user.

OhLookHeKickedTheBall · 29/01/2019 12:21

Pmk
Thanks red-

bubblewire · 29/01/2019 12:24

PMK

Labour now backing the Cooper amendment!

BrieAndOatcakes · 29/01/2019 12:28

RTB, your summings up at the start of these threads are the best source of Brexit info around.

(PMK)

SusanWalker · 29/01/2019 12:33

Ed Vaizey now thinking of supporting Malthouse nonsense. FFS. What is wrong with these people.

icannotremember · 29/01/2019 12:34

PMK

MissMalice · 29/01/2019 12:34

It makes me want to weep. It’s not even based in facts. For heavens sake.

IsobelKarev · 29/01/2019 12:46

PMK. I didn't get to even post on the last thread!

Sorry, but what does CTA mean?

phpolly · 29/01/2019 12:47

The Malthouse thing is so obviously a non-starter that I am wondering whether it's a ruse to distract (and provide cover for?) any Tory MPs who might have been wavering and thinking of voting for the Cooper amendment

Satsumaeater · 29/01/2019 13:00

CTA= common travel agreement (or arrangement?) which means Irish and British citizens can move between both countries without visas etc - irrespective of EU laws. That will remain the case after Brexit.

Whatthefoxgoingon · 29/01/2019 13:01

PMK

OMFG

Scandaloso · 29/01/2019 13:01

Area. Although they might decide to shred that further down the line

PostNotInHaste · 29/01/2019 13:02

PMK with a copy of a comment from the Express I’ve just read:

‘235000 miners lost their jobs in the 80s
WE GOT OVER IT
Millions lost their lives in 2 world wars.
WE GOT OVER IT.
14000 jobs for freedom from an EU evil entity that is bringing poverty and criminality and worse to the whole of Europe, is not even going to ruffle the Brits.
We walk away free March 29.’

I feel deep despair today.

IsobelKarev · 29/01/2019 13:03

Thanks satsumaeater.

TokyoSushi · 29/01/2019 13:09

PMK

🦄 🧁 🦄 🧁🦄🧁🦄🧁🦄🧁