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Brexit

Westminstenders: Amendment Fail

977 replies

RedToothBrush · 29/01/2019 09:26

The EU's deputy chief negotiator Sabine Weyand said yesterday that there is a high risk of the UK crashing out of the EU without a deal by accident.

She also made a point of saying that the Withdrawal Agreement was shaped hugely by the parameters set by the UK and not the EU.

'We’re not going to reopen the Agreement. The result of the negotiation has been very much shaped by the UK negotiators, much more than they actually get credit for. This is a bit like snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. The backstop was very much shaped by UK.'

She also made the observation that
'In fact much of the conversation is uninhibited by any knowledge of what is actually in the WA.'

She reaffirmed the point that from the EU point of view that a time-limit to the Irish backstop defeated the purpose of having one. Remember the point of the backstop is to protect the integrity of the GFA.

Tonight is shaping up as follows:
Murrison II has been dropped in favour of the much more vague Brady Amendment. The government are now backing this, which would tie May into having to go back to the EU and talk about the backstop. Which if you refer to the above, was instigated and agreed to in no small part by May's own team.

The ERG are not happy about this, as they think they are being stitched up to be fully signed up to the WA.

The Brady amendment is being sold as enabling a mystery alternative solution. Which the government have said "well you'll have to vote for the amendment to find out what it is". Yes really.

This leaves the ERG split as to what to do. (Remember May needs pretty much a full house of support for a majority). And the DUP, after Sammy Wilson said today it was time for us to 'exploit the chaos of the EU', are also holding off making a decision.

The ERG then instead said that they will support an amendment by the PM herself which is crystal clear in its intent to remove the backstop and reopen the WA. Something May had ruled out. Then the ERG came up with the Malthouse Compromise and May has suddenly said that she will unilaterally reopen the WA.... Despite the EU ruling this out yesterday.

Remember Weyland said about the concept of Max Fac as an alternative to the backstop:
'We looked at every border on this earth, every border EU has with a 3rd country - there’s simply no way you can do away with checks & controls. The negotiators have not been able to explain them to us and that’s not their fault, it’s because they don’t exist.'

Before stressing:
'I still think the Political Declaration is a work of art because it bridges the unbridgeable and it leaves choices open. It doesn’t pretend to be able to make choices that have not been made in the UK. That’s the area where we do have room for manoeuvre.'

In other words, this is all in OUR hands to work out between ourselves and not the EU. We STILL have to decide what we want. But it STILL has to answer certain questions and issues that the EU have.

As far as numbers stand, the latest for the Brady was that between 20 (according to the gov whips) and 40 (according to the ERG) ERG rebels were holding out, whilst up to 10 remain tories are thinking of rebelling. Thats not anywhere near enough for May without large numbers of Labour rebels. BUT that was before the Malthouse Compromise came out.

Meanwhile the Cooper-Boles amendment has finally got a three line whip supporting it from Labour. But there is no word on what Tories might do. The last word on numbers was that there were just 3 votes in it - so it needs ALL MPs even the lazy ones to show up. Its proper squeaky bum time on that one. It even raises the possibility of the spectacle of the Speaker voting. And as previously mentioned if it passes as well as Brady it becomes sticky as to how it would work, the EU might not go for it anyway and it doesn't necessarily stop No Deal is certain situations.

In reality the worst outcome from the amendment votes today would be that nothing passes. It doesn't move us forward in anyway. Even Brady passing would lead us somewhere rather than the state of purgatory we are currently mired in.

Might the new 'Maltman Compromise' between Mogg, Morgan and Baker complete with its 'frontstop' instead of backstop and its magic new protocol which everyone will agree to but is completely be devoid of detail, be the way forward instead? Boris Johnson has declared it a breakthrough.

Of course not. Its best described as everyone's unicorns strapped together and its complete lack of compatibility with the EU's criteria make it a time wasting exercise just to make the Tories feel good about themselves and united in their belief that the EU is being mean to them.

Its almost as if those writing the Malthouse Compromise didn't understand what the EU have been saying all along...

In reality its a political device to whip May with and to waste time and to try and frame the EU as bad guys once again, not a serious proposal. But with widespread support within the Tory party May is going to find it hard to kill it off, even when the EU do.

If you weren't already going cross eyed by this point, this should finish you off. The Brady Amendment is vague enough to accomodate the Malthouse Compromise within it. Which might be the thing that gets the Brady Amendment through in the end anyway. Who knows?

If you've managed to follow all this even vaguely, then you are doing well. Please do ask questions if you are confused as hell, we'll all try and make some sense of it together!!!

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HerLadySheep · 29/01/2019 13:12

@postnotinhaste, what utter arseholes, the millions who died in the wars definitely did not get over it!!!
I cannot think that the EU will come back to the table for this, and in all honesty, nor do I think they should. Our Government are an utter shower of shit and I despair.
I can see nothing else but no deal happening now, with the Quitters trying to blame to EU for it. Utter utter cunts (apols, v cross!)

Missbel · 29/01/2019 13:16

@postnotinhaste, what utter arseholes, the millions who died in the wars definitely did not get over it!!!
No-one that I knew who fought in WW1 or 2 got over it. Their war hung over my and millions of other 1950s and 60s children's childhoods in ways that I didn't begin to understand until I was an adult myself. It's still shaping our society - and that of Europe.
There's a helpful analysis (and destruction) of Malthouse from David Henig in the Guardian www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jan/29/tory-brexit-malthouse-compromise-backstop-ireland-border

ElenadeClermont · 29/01/2019 13:19

Also the UK has not lost millions of people in WW2. Not even half a million.

DGRossetti · 29/01/2019 13:20

the millions who died in the wars definitely did not get over it!!!

True. But then they don't count.

Or vote.

DGRossetti · 29/01/2019 13:21

BBC currently telling us that our Glorious Leader is to ask the EU to reopen negotiations.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47037365

Weezol · 29/01/2019 13:22

Hat tip to Grinchly

HanWilk · 29/01/2019 13:26

The welfare state, NHS and benefits were brought in because after two WWs the government realised the population were not well enough to fight as soldiers, make ammunition or farm the land to defend the nation. Mechanisation replaced the need for healthy humans.

DGRossetti · 29/01/2019 13:27

Incidentally, if the UK really wants to square up to Europe over the rather distasteful "who got fucked over worst" charts, then the UK is quite low on the list. Yes, the Blitz was a little intense. But most of Britain emerged unscathed while the rest of Europe looked ... well like a battlefield.

And Germanys recovery pissed all over Britains.

BigChocFrenzy · 29/01/2019 13:27

post When you're committing serious self-harm, you have to tell yourself it's to escape some evil bogeyman
otherwise you'd have to give your head a wobble and admit you'd been conned

Unless of course you're one of those doing the conning
In which case you just sit back & enjoy your loot from hedge-funds etc

QueenMabby · 29/01/2019 13:28

Cod Rug Empress
I’ve stockpiled popcorn ready for this shit show....
I’m genuinely flabbergasted at the sheer stupidity of some (most) of our elected representatives. I’m ashamed of them.

SusanWalker · 29/01/2019 13:30

My grandad didn't fight in ww2. He worked in a factory in Coventry making aeroplanes or tanks ( not sure which). I watched a documentary on the bombing of Coventry. When the sirens went the factory workers would put on a metal helmet and keep working, despite the factories being the main target.

My grandad ended up an alcoholic and my dad's life was aversely affected.

But yeah, they got over it.

BigChocFrenzy · 29/01/2019 13:40

The UK has a braindrain to the EU - and receives its own (low income) pensioners back in return

Any expat Westministenders retired or about to: bad news
Probably not only UK pensioner expats, as probably the treaty would no longer apply to E27 expats in the UK either

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jan/29/british-pensioners-in-eu-will-lose-nhs-covered-health-care-under-no-deal-brexit

British nationals who have retired to EU countries including Spain and France will no longer have their healthcare covered by the NHSS_ in the event of no deal, the government has said.

The confirmation will come as a blow to around 190,000 British citizens retired in the EU in the Spanish Costas, Provence in France and Tuscany in Italy, all popular with British pensioners.

It could also add to the burden on the NHS if pensioners believe they have no option but to return to the UK for treatment.
The government has previously admitted it is cheaper to pay Spain and France to look after Britons’ medical bills than have them fly home.

< that number means more hospitals & care homes - and staff - needed >

TokyoSushi · 29/01/2019 13:41

Sorry if this has been asked already - When will we know which amendments Bercow has selected?

DGRossetti · 29/01/2019 13:41

I watched a documentary on the bombing of Coventry.

The Morris museum should be on everyone agenda if they visit. The sections devoted to the war and reconciliation (German teenagers visiting in the 1960s to help reconstruction) are particularly moving.

DGRossetti · 29/01/2019 13:43

I'm sure any returning pensioners will be sure of a warm welcome Hmm

Somerville · 29/01/2019 13:45

Any minute, I thought, Tokyo

BigChocFrenzy · 29/01/2019 13:45

OK, as suspected, May does things she knows are stupid & pointless, to keep her Brexiters on board
No wonder the EU are fed up with her wasting their time

Robert Peston@Peston

I am told PM will endeavour to stroke her ruffled parliamentary party by saying she will explore whether Baker/Morgan Brexit plan works.
But privately she thinks it will never swim; EU27 will reject it.^

Will @SteveBakerHW and @NickyMorgan01 and the ERG rebels...
...now buy her honeyed words, and vote for Brady motion, as the PM desperately hopes?

Inniu · 29/01/2019 13:49

The UK really does not want to get into a pissing contest about their sacrifices in the war when negotiating on the back stop. 800 years of inflicting oppression and famine means they are a long way from being heroes.

DGRossetti · 29/01/2019 13:50

But privately she thinks it will never swim; EU27 will reject it

She doesn't really need to "think privately" (if she thinks at all). The EU have already rejected it. No thinking needed (luckily).

BigChocFrenzy · 29/01/2019 13:51

During the Troubles, the constant complaint from Britain was that Irish people couldn't move on from their history

prettybird · 29/01/2019 13:51

But Mousie May, thou art no thy lane
In proving foresight may be vain,
The best laid schemes o Mogg an men
Gang aft agley
An lea’e us nought but grief an pain,
Or Nigel’s joy

From dh's Brexit Burns to plaice cat king.

OhYouBadBadKitten · 29/01/2019 13:51

selected amendments announced. I can't type it all out if A happens then something with O then if something to do with G then B then J then at the end either everything or the original.

Somerville · 29/01/2019 13:52

Including Cooper and Brady.

Somerville · 29/01/2019 13:54

TM:
"The whole worls now know what we don't want... Today we need to send an empathic message about what we do want..."

SalrycLuxx · 29/01/2019 13:56

Which one is Nalthouse?