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Brexit

Westminstenders: Amendment Fail

977 replies

RedToothBrush · 29/01/2019 09:26

The EU's deputy chief negotiator Sabine Weyand said yesterday that there is a high risk of the UK crashing out of the EU without a deal by accident.

She also made a point of saying that the Withdrawal Agreement was shaped hugely by the parameters set by the UK and not the EU.

'We’re not going to reopen the Agreement. The result of the negotiation has been very much shaped by the UK negotiators, much more than they actually get credit for. This is a bit like snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. The backstop was very much shaped by UK.'

She also made the observation that
'In fact much of the conversation is uninhibited by any knowledge of what is actually in the WA.'

She reaffirmed the point that from the EU point of view that a time-limit to the Irish backstop defeated the purpose of having one. Remember the point of the backstop is to protect the integrity of the GFA.

Tonight is shaping up as follows:
Murrison II has been dropped in favour of the much more vague Brady Amendment. The government are now backing this, which would tie May into having to go back to the EU and talk about the backstop. Which if you refer to the above, was instigated and agreed to in no small part by May's own team.

The ERG are not happy about this, as they think they are being stitched up to be fully signed up to the WA.

The Brady amendment is being sold as enabling a mystery alternative solution. Which the government have said "well you'll have to vote for the amendment to find out what it is". Yes really.

This leaves the ERG split as to what to do. (Remember May needs pretty much a full house of support for a majority). And the DUP, after Sammy Wilson said today it was time for us to 'exploit the chaos of the EU', are also holding off making a decision.

The ERG then instead said that they will support an amendment by the PM herself which is crystal clear in its intent to remove the backstop and reopen the WA. Something May had ruled out. Then the ERG came up with the Malthouse Compromise and May has suddenly said that she will unilaterally reopen the WA.... Despite the EU ruling this out yesterday.

Remember Weyland said about the concept of Max Fac as an alternative to the backstop:
'We looked at every border on this earth, every border EU has with a 3rd country - there’s simply no way you can do away with checks & controls. The negotiators have not been able to explain them to us and that’s not their fault, it’s because they don’t exist.'

Before stressing:
'I still think the Political Declaration is a work of art because it bridges the unbridgeable and it leaves choices open. It doesn’t pretend to be able to make choices that have not been made in the UK. That’s the area where we do have room for manoeuvre.'

In other words, this is all in OUR hands to work out between ourselves and not the EU. We STILL have to decide what we want. But it STILL has to answer certain questions and issues that the EU have.

As far as numbers stand, the latest for the Brady was that between 20 (according to the gov whips) and 40 (according to the ERG) ERG rebels were holding out, whilst up to 10 remain tories are thinking of rebelling. Thats not anywhere near enough for May without large numbers of Labour rebels. BUT that was before the Malthouse Compromise came out.

Meanwhile the Cooper-Boles amendment has finally got a three line whip supporting it from Labour. But there is no word on what Tories might do. The last word on numbers was that there were just 3 votes in it - so it needs ALL MPs even the lazy ones to show up. Its proper squeaky bum time on that one. It even raises the possibility of the spectacle of the Speaker voting. And as previously mentioned if it passes as well as Brady it becomes sticky as to how it would work, the EU might not go for it anyway and it doesn't necessarily stop No Deal is certain situations.

In reality the worst outcome from the amendment votes today would be that nothing passes. It doesn't move us forward in anyway. Even Brady passing would lead us somewhere rather than the state of purgatory we are currently mired in.

Might the new 'Maltman Compromise' between Mogg, Morgan and Baker complete with its 'frontstop' instead of backstop and its magic new protocol which everyone will agree to but is completely be devoid of detail, be the way forward instead? Boris Johnson has declared it a breakthrough.

Of course not. Its best described as everyone's unicorns strapped together and its complete lack of compatibility with the EU's criteria make it a time wasting exercise just to make the Tories feel good about themselves and united in their belief that the EU is being mean to them.

Its almost as if those writing the Malthouse Compromise didn't understand what the EU have been saying all along...

In reality its a political device to whip May with and to waste time and to try and frame the EU as bad guys once again, not a serious proposal. But with widespread support within the Tory party May is going to find it hard to kill it off, even when the EU do.

If you weren't already going cross eyed by this point, this should finish you off. The Brady Amendment is vague enough to accomodate the Malthouse Compromise within it. Which might be the thing that gets the Brady Amendment through in the end anyway. Who knows?

If you've managed to follow all this even vaguely, then you are doing well. Please do ask questions if you are confused as hell, we'll all try and make some sense of it together!!!

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PestymcPestFace · 29/01/2019 23:04

Agree BCF May's deal is shit, but it is what I expected.
Any deal to leave the EU would be rather poor.

If we worked really hard on the PD and DEAL to come, it could almost be OK

Another referendum is unicorn land and no deal is a disaster.

Revoke - have you observed May - highly unlikely

nicoala1 · 29/01/2019 23:04

Brexit Garden,

Would Momentum have a vote to get Corbyn out? I thought it would just be MPs

I am just asking, as I don't know. Thanks.

Scandaloso · 29/01/2019 23:06

The leader is elected by the membership and at the moment Momentum control the membership.

Scandaloso · 29/01/2019 23:06

If it was just MPs voting on the leader attempts would have been made on his (political) life long before now.

woman11017 · 29/01/2019 23:08

Popping in to say hi to all the many lovely regulars round here.

How's the old ' it's not fascsim, this is england' thingy holding up?

But beyond that, lots of good wishes to the great women on these threads, and special thanks to red and BCF

And all of us Women who hold all these islands together. X

nicoala1 · 29/01/2019 23:10

Scandaloso,

Scary spice now. We are totally fkn doomed, but Corbyn is happy.

What about a vote of no confidence. I suppose that only applies to PM.

Apileofballyhoo · 29/01/2019 23:11

Pesty, that's a good article but it does fail mention that the EU said it has no problem with just NI staying in and the rest of the UK making whatever trade deals it likes. Thought I'd reiterate that just in case anyone is reading and doesn't realise it's literally 10 people holding everyone else in the UK to ransom. And the Theresa May is letting them just because she wants to be PM and wants the Tories in power, so she needs their votes.

GoldenSyrupLion · 29/01/2019 23:12

Don't think I'll be falling asleep any time soon. Christ on a bike, what an utter clusterfuck this is. Our elected representatives are an embarrassment.

SingingBabooshkaBadly · 29/01/2019 23:14

Welcome back!

PCPlumsTruncheon · 29/01/2019 23:15

Hello woman Lovely to ‘see’ you. How are things? I can’t remember what name I had when you were a regular around here.

PestymcPestFace · 29/01/2019 23:15

The EU would have preferred a light border in the Irish sea, as it already exists. Catch a ferry to Ireland and they will glance at your passport and then ask 17 times if you have any plants on you.

Peregrina · 29/01/2019 23:17

DS had pretty much the same experience as Red when trying to sell a house - a stupid offer, so far below the asking price that the would be buyers were told to get lost.

Some other random thoughts: -
This thread is only a day old and is near to filling up!
The shit is hitting the fan, but at the moment the fan is only whirring slowly.
May would only revoke if she saw a chance to stick it to Labour - as she expected with the last election.

Quietrebel · 29/01/2019 23:18

Renegotiating the backstop is obvious cakeism.
The problem with brexit is that the UK can't get what it wants without getting the EU to self destruct, which it would if it accepted to split the 4 freedoms or reneged on the GFA.
That's why it's not a negotiation and can never be one. No one has ever done a deal or partnered up with anyone by committing acts of aggression. It has to be a win-win. Brexit can only ever be a lose lose.

PCPlumsTruncheon · 29/01/2019 23:19

mobile.twitter.com/haveigotnews/status/1090366524282556417?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

Here is HIGNFY’S take on things

SustainableOhYes · 29/01/2019 23:20

The EU would have preferred a light border in the Irish sea, as it already exists.

The DUP will not allow this and this is why we are having all the problems, 10 people high on the control and ability to destruct any deal between the UK, Ireland and EU.

nicoala1 · 29/01/2019 23:20

How can UK decide unilaterally to amend an agreement that has already been decided upon and agreed by both UK and the 27 members of uk.

Is is arrogance, hubris, or stupidity?

Anyway EU very hopefully will tell them to F off.

Quietrebel · 29/01/2019 23:20

The whole premise is at best quixotic, at worst dishonest.

woman11017 · 29/01/2019 23:21

lovely to see you Plums Babooshka Smile
plums, MrsHooliesCardigan was your name? ; one of the best MN names. Smile. Right, off tae bed. bye folks.x

Dongdingdong · 29/01/2019 23:22

Pesty, that's a good article but it does fail mention that the EU said it has no problem with just NI staying in and the rest of the UK making whatever trade deals it likes. Thought I'd reiterate that just in case anyone is reading and doesn't realise it's literally 10 people holding everyone else in the UK to ransom.

So you’re saying that every single other person in Northern Ireland would have no problem being effectively annexed off from the rest of the UK by the EU in order to force through Brexit? Of course that’s not a viable option.

PCPlumsTruncheon · 29/01/2019 23:22

mobile.twitter.com/haveigotnews/status/1090350812277194752?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

You can always rely on Alan Partridge

PerverseConverse · 29/01/2019 23:24

Night night all. Hope you manage to sleep and don't lie awake worrying Thanks

PestymcPestFace · 29/01/2019 23:26

The DUP
don't sit at Stormont
don't allow abortions

The Northern Ireland Assembly has voted on the matter (of same sex marriage) five times since 2012, and although it was passed by a slim majority on the fifth attempt, it has been consistently vetoed by the Democratic Unionist Party using the petition of concern

The DUP don't want to behave like the rest of the country, so why should the rest of the country behave like the DUP

Arlene has still not blocked me on Twitter Grin

HesterThrale · 29/01/2019 23:26

Hi woman11017 ! Great to see you. We missed your points of view.

This won't end as the the ERG want. There's too much suppressed dissent to Brexit. This will come out in the end. You can't do major constitutional change without majority consent. Even if we leave the EU, the Tories will not escape without major damage.

In the US, thousands of good people were encouraged to stand for government after Trump got in, and the pendulum is at the beginning of its turnaround.

We never give up.

Dongdingdong · 29/01/2019 23:26

Anyway EU very hopefully will tell them to F off.

Why would you want that to happen, unless you’re hoping to leave with no deal?

woman11017 · 29/01/2019 23:30

hester you are always lovely, and always give hope. Thank you. Smile