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Brexit

Westminstenders: Amendment Fail

977 replies

RedToothBrush · 29/01/2019 09:26

The EU's deputy chief negotiator Sabine Weyand said yesterday that there is a high risk of the UK crashing out of the EU without a deal by accident.

She also made a point of saying that the Withdrawal Agreement was shaped hugely by the parameters set by the UK and not the EU.

'We’re not going to reopen the Agreement. The result of the negotiation has been very much shaped by the UK negotiators, much more than they actually get credit for. This is a bit like snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. The backstop was very much shaped by UK.'

She also made the observation that
'In fact much of the conversation is uninhibited by any knowledge of what is actually in the WA.'

She reaffirmed the point that from the EU point of view that a time-limit to the Irish backstop defeated the purpose of having one. Remember the point of the backstop is to protect the integrity of the GFA.

Tonight is shaping up as follows:
Murrison II has been dropped in favour of the much more vague Brady Amendment. The government are now backing this, which would tie May into having to go back to the EU and talk about the backstop. Which if you refer to the above, was instigated and agreed to in no small part by May's own team.

The ERG are not happy about this, as they think they are being stitched up to be fully signed up to the WA.

The Brady amendment is being sold as enabling a mystery alternative solution. Which the government have said "well you'll have to vote for the amendment to find out what it is". Yes really.

This leaves the ERG split as to what to do. (Remember May needs pretty much a full house of support for a majority). And the DUP, after Sammy Wilson said today it was time for us to 'exploit the chaos of the EU', are also holding off making a decision.

The ERG then instead said that they will support an amendment by the PM herself which is crystal clear in its intent to remove the backstop and reopen the WA. Something May had ruled out. Then the ERG came up with the Malthouse Compromise and May has suddenly said that she will unilaterally reopen the WA.... Despite the EU ruling this out yesterday.

Remember Weyland said about the concept of Max Fac as an alternative to the backstop:
'We looked at every border on this earth, every border EU has with a 3rd country - there’s simply no way you can do away with checks & controls. The negotiators have not been able to explain them to us and that’s not their fault, it’s because they don’t exist.'

Before stressing:
'I still think the Political Declaration is a work of art because it bridges the unbridgeable and it leaves choices open. It doesn’t pretend to be able to make choices that have not been made in the UK. That’s the area where we do have room for manoeuvre.'

In other words, this is all in OUR hands to work out between ourselves and not the EU. We STILL have to decide what we want. But it STILL has to answer certain questions and issues that the EU have.

As far as numbers stand, the latest for the Brady was that between 20 (according to the gov whips) and 40 (according to the ERG) ERG rebels were holding out, whilst up to 10 remain tories are thinking of rebelling. Thats not anywhere near enough for May without large numbers of Labour rebels. BUT that was before the Malthouse Compromise came out.

Meanwhile the Cooper-Boles amendment has finally got a three line whip supporting it from Labour. But there is no word on what Tories might do. The last word on numbers was that there were just 3 votes in it - so it needs ALL MPs even the lazy ones to show up. Its proper squeaky bum time on that one. It even raises the possibility of the spectacle of the Speaker voting. And as previously mentioned if it passes as well as Brady it becomes sticky as to how it would work, the EU might not go for it anyway and it doesn't necessarily stop No Deal is certain situations.

In reality the worst outcome from the amendment votes today would be that nothing passes. It doesn't move us forward in anyway. Even Brady passing would lead us somewhere rather than the state of purgatory we are currently mired in.

Might the new 'Maltman Compromise' between Mogg, Morgan and Baker complete with its 'frontstop' instead of backstop and its magic new protocol which everyone will agree to but is completely be devoid of detail, be the way forward instead? Boris Johnson has declared it a breakthrough.

Of course not. Its best described as everyone's unicorns strapped together and its complete lack of compatibility with the EU's criteria make it a time wasting exercise just to make the Tories feel good about themselves and united in their belief that the EU is being mean to them.

Its almost as if those writing the Malthouse Compromise didn't understand what the EU have been saying all along...

In reality its a political device to whip May with and to waste time and to try and frame the EU as bad guys once again, not a serious proposal. But with widespread support within the Tory party May is going to find it hard to kill it off, even when the EU do.

If you weren't already going cross eyed by this point, this should finish you off. The Brady Amendment is vague enough to accomodate the Malthouse Compromise within it. Which might be the thing that gets the Brady Amendment through in the end anyway. Who knows?

If you've managed to follow all this even vaguely, then you are doing well. Please do ask questions if you are confused as hell, we'll all try and make some sense of it together!!!

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RedToothBrush · 29/01/2019 22:45

The I.

Westminstenders: Amendment Fail
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Focalpoint · 29/01/2019 22:45

@BigChocFrenzy totally agree. This whole charade is just about giving the MPs a ladder to climb down and to vote for WA as lesser of two evils, all the while blaming the EU for their intransigence.

Quietrebel · 29/01/2019 22:45

On another note, yesterday the £ was at 1.156 to the €.
It's now only 1.14 and sinking fast

BigChocFrenzy · 29/01/2019 22:47

This is the EU's handy summary explaining the backstop

http://europa.eu/rapid/press-releaseMEMO-18-64233_33_en.htm

colouringinpro · 29/01/2019 22:47

Those Mail and Express front covers make me feel physically sick Envy (Not envy)

nicoala1 · 29/01/2019 22:47

Not that it is a primary issue, but expats on a fixed pension must have to cut back on their sun screen due to the fall in disposable income.

RedToothBrush · 29/01/2019 22:47

Siobhán Fenton @SiobhanFenton
SDLP leader Colum Eastwood on this evening’s Westminster vote- “Tonight, London decided the interests of the people in Northern Ireland were secondary to the needs of the Conservative Party. Let me be clear, the people of Northern Ireland did not consent to this"

BBC Newsnight @BBCNewsnight
“We’ve had pitiful leadership… people are not putting their country first and foremost… I despair of what is happening to our country” - Conservative MP Anna Soubry tells our political editor Nicholas Watt

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Hazardswans · 29/01/2019 22:48

I'm holding off forming an opinion until I've read more. All I've formulated so far is it's shite and labour shouldn't have had anyone abstaining. If labour had normal leadership -doesn't even have to be particularly good- it would have gone so much better Sad

RedToothBrush · 29/01/2019 22:49

Independent.

Westminstenders: Amendment Fail
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Quietrebel · 29/01/2019 22:49

Soubry, Wollaston et al should bite the bullet and leave the Tories. It's hopeless. At least by forming their own movement they would send a strong message.

MyNameIsArthur · 29/01/2019 22:52

Not much choice under FPTP is there?

Everyone vote Lib dems! Kick Conservatives and Labour out into the cold once and for all!

Scandaloso · 29/01/2019 22:52

Oliver Norgrove

@OliverNorgrove
'The backstop is an invention of the UK's negotiating team. It is born of the UK's red lines and UK's late concession on a UK-wide customs territory. The backstop is not the EU's creation.'

Abso-bloody-lutely

Red fucking lines.

PerverseConverse · 29/01/2019 22:52

Thanks @BigChocFrenzy and @Apileofballyhoo. I can't access that link BCF but will have a google tomorrow and see if my tired brain can understand it all any better. I didn't realise that NI would be able to stay in if we didn't sort our shot out by the end of the withdrawal. Maybe an amendment to that could be that if at the end of the transition/withdrawal period there's no togetherness of shit, then the whole of the UK can stay in. That way NI isn't getting special treatment and the border isn't an issue as we are still in the eu.

nicoala1 · 29/01/2019 22:54

Who supports Corbyn (former Labour supporter here). And why.

Can anyone tell me why there has not been a backbench revolt against him. Sounds odd to me. But I am just a voter. I will never again vote Labour whilst he is there.

Despite Lib Dems and their off the wall shite sometimes, that is where my vote will go next time. Just because I can vote for someone other than Lab or Con. now.

That FPTP is just a demonic thing now though. Democracy my arse. Sorry.

icannotremember · 29/01/2019 22:54

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47033979

How did your mp vote? Mine was against Brady, abstained on the snp one and voted for the rest. Fat lot of good it did us though.

PestymcPestFace · 29/01/2019 22:54

Gently bias analysis of WA
ukandeu.ac.uk/free-trade-deals-are-not-a-reason-to-back-the-uk-governments-deal

Icantreachthepretzels · 29/01/2019 22:56

How did your mp vote?

I don't even need to check - he'll have voted whichever way TM wanted him to. He even supported the W.A last time around.

BigChocFrenzy · 29/01/2019 22:57

Fintan O'Toole@fotoolee retweeted Helene von Bismarckk@HeleneBismarck

Is it annoying of me to remind everyone that even IF the EU27, as in Commission and MS governments caved on the #backstopp^ ,
the @EuropeanParll^ still needed to ratify such an agreement?

Which. They. Won’t. Do.

Scandaloso · 29/01/2019 22:58

Can anyone tell me why there has not been a backbench revolt against him.

Because as it stands at the moment, if there was a leadership challenge Corbyn would most likely walk it. People are probably biding their time until more of the gloss wears off. I'm sure knives are being sharpened behind the scenes but they need to choose their moment.

mybrainhurtsalot · 29/01/2019 22:59

Were MPs whipped on all the amendments & if so were the details made public? I’ve seen this mentioned for some amendments but not all.

BrexitGarden · 29/01/2019 22:59

Can anyone tell me why there has not been a backbench revolt against him. Sounds odd to me.

Momentum, they are in my experience, very angry intimidating and agressive active members with very strong views who dominate meetings with very dull long monologues.

BigChocFrenzy · 29/01/2019 23:00

The reason to back the WA is that it is the only alternative to No Deal - which would be a national catastrophe

We know it's a shit WA, but with May's obsession against FOM, it's the best that's possible.
Now we're out of time

At least the PD leaves open the UK completely changing its future relationship to a very close one, if it wants, with much better trading terms

Unescorted · 29/01/2019 23:01

Yes it is a bit of " and your point is caller?" mission that TM is going on

Loletta · 29/01/2019 23:01

I don't understand why it can't be the UK to compromise and put the border in the Irish Sea in the event a border is needed after the negotiations? Is that because TM would permanently lose her majority and would have to call a GE?

Inniu · 29/01/2019 23:03

@loletta

Yes