I am thinking EU should lift their backstop demand (Irish MNers?)

[YeOldeTrout]

Bear with me, I'm a rabid pro-EU person & Remainer, actually.

But if UK leaves on 'No Deal' we're going to have hard border in Ireland from 29/30 March 2019, anyway. If EU allows removal of backstop, there's (how ever long) transition period of UK abiding by GFA and no hard border, until end 2020 or end 2021 maybe. GFA may be screwed over after that given the parlous talents of UK to negotiate with EU, but at least there's a few extra yrs of peace and stability in Ireland first.

I know it's not EU policy to be like children 'kick the can down the road', but it's the lesser of evils, if removing Backstop demand could get WA approved by UK Parliament now.

EU will only lift Backstop if Ireland agrees. Would Ireland prefer hard-border. Is EU too proud? EU should only do this with mega-plans about supporting Ireland in threatened legal action of GFA violated at end of transition period.

Thoughts from Irish (including Norn) MNers?

With these fecking jokers who would give them an opportunity to unilaterally back out of stuff because it hurt their feelings.

A time limited backstop isn't a backstop. The whole point of the backstop is that it's an insurance policy in case a suitable trade deal isn't made.

If the backstop were time limited, the UK could just wait out the five or ten years or whatever term was put on it and screw us (those of us living in NI) over then.

I'm Irish and I happen to think the international peace treaty that is the GFA trumps this petty Tory coup that is brexit. Ireland has abided by its part of the contract, your lot needs to do the same.

I just don't know. I've lost any grasp on credit that I had. It's just so chaotic. Scary though.

Not credit, Brexit. Stupid autocorrect.

Ireland and the EU are doing the honourable thing by N Ireland and protecting the GFA and in particular the nationalist population of NI who are Irish citizens just as those in the rest of Ireland.

How could the Irish government abandon its own citizens who desperately want no change at all? And why would it do so?

We are unhappily aware of the implications of a no deal - ie a hard border - but that will come, as you say in any case if we are denied the protection of a backstop.

I would rather suffer a hard border through no deal than suffer a hard border knowing my (Irish) government let it happen through appeasement.

Either way a hard border is likely to lead to a border poll in NI and the road to Irish reunification will begin; which is why the DUP position is so hard to fathom

I would rather suffer a hard border through no deal than suffer a hard border knowing my (Irish) government let it happen through appeasement.

Hear hear.

The idea of the Irish government pandering to these wannabe colonial overlords give me the absolute rage.

Either way a hard border is likely to lead to a border poll in NI and the road to Irish reunification will begin; which is why the DUP position is so hard to fathom

Yes! This is what I don't understand with their hardline stance. They're hastening the thing they fear the most.

The DUP aren't the brightest in general, are they?

I would rather suffer a hard border through no deal than suffer a hard border knowing my (Irish) government let it happen through appeasement.

Same here.

A no deal will actually be better for Ireland than a bad deal. No deal, border checks the UK will be seen to have destroyed a Peace agreement. Ireland would have to ratify any trade deal with Europe. Irish American lobby would have a lot of say about the GFA they helped broker when UK look for trade deal with the US.

No deal is not an end state. No deal means within that a few weeks UKgov will have to return to the negotiations, in a position of extreme weakness.

Why? Why should people on the island of Ireland risk their peace and security because a bunch of Tory Boy brats in Westminster don’t want to make responsible decisions? The U.K. made a terrible decision and is now expecting Ireland to take part of its pain. AND to top it all off they’re being insulting about us and dismissing our concerns all while moaning about how ‘difficult the Irish are being’

It’s ridiculous.

No one wants a hard border and no one in the UK will impose a hard border. So the EU should stop being so childish and agree a FTA that means we dont need to worry about a hard border.

I dont get why Ireland and the EU would rather have no deal than agree a transition deal. But obviously there is a hidden agenda, maybe they have a plan to keep us in the EU. NOT happening!

As long as the UK promise not to put up increased checks at the crossing then we are doing the right thing. Any increased violence in southern Ireland will be on the EUs head if they are the ones imposing security checks.

The EU needs a reality check.

What I can't fathom is why the Brexit supporters want the EU and Remainers to find a solution. They're the ones convinced this is doable. Let them do it, with no loss of peace or trade.

^This

Also, Ireland and the EU are not separate entities.

If it gets to 10pm on March 29 with no withdrawal agreement, May will revoke rather than take everyone over a cliff.

She’s perfectly well briefed on the disastrous consequences of a ND Brexit. It would be the end of any governing party that let it happen.
There’s also been lots of weird briefing going on - leaks about superficial, flashy stuff that civil servants and departments are doing to prepare for ND, but if you talk to actual civil servants, they’re bewildered as they’ve had no real instructions and there’s no serious prep going on.

That rash of announcements from previously silent businesses about how terrible ND would be?

Airbus Senior VP Katherine Bennett let slip, in an interview with Sky, that No10 told them to ‘make clear the impact’ of No Deal.

She’s putting all of us through Merry hell to keep the loons in the Tory party on side and stop them tearing each other apart but it’s looking increasingly like she’ll revoke if the crunch comes.

Stand firm you’ve got 26 other nations supporting you and at least 48% of Brits (who are horrified at how you’re being treated and will not forget).

I dont get why Ireland and the EU would rather have no deal than agree a transition deal.

We already had a transition deal and it was negotiated fair and square. If the UK can't make up its mind on the deal and function like a normal democracy to agree multilateral treaties then why is that the problem of the EU? It's entirely on the shoulders of the UK to figure out what it wants and then to present real solutions to problems rather than 'uh-duh well uh maybe Ireland could rejoin the UK uh-duh!?!?'

Also, it's the Republic of Ireland, not southern Ireland. Don't embarrass yourself by showing such ignorance (although your ignorance is typical of the Leave side).

Any increased violence in southern Ireland will be on the EUs head if they are the ones imposing security checks.

The EU and Ireland would be legally obliged to put up a hard border. It is not just about security and migration. It is also about customs and tarrifs.
Except if there is a backstop.
Or the UK stays in the single market and customs union.

Otherwise EU nationals and EU produce could flood the UK via NI. Wasn't that what 52% wanted to avoid?

The arrogance of some British people and the British government is staggering.

www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2019/01/17/opinion/sunday/brexit-ireland-empire.amp.html

@Walkingdeadfangirl, UK & EU could get on with negotiating FTA if only we sorted out the WA. UK is wasting time massively.

What country would negotiate FTA with UK right now, with any genuine good faith, knowing that UK govt can't make deals that its Parliament will accept? That UK doesn't keep its commitments from prior trade deals? We can all see that UK is happy to renege on mutual pension arrangements and peace treaties, and that there are powerful British politicians (backbench) who don't understand WTO obligations.

Somebody will do trade deals with us. They have lots of incentive to implement the deal with no respect for UK to keep our side of the bargain, so reduced sincerity to keep to their side of the bargain..

As long as the UK promise not to put up increased checks at the crossing then we are doing the right thing. Any increased violence in southern Ireland will be on the EUs head if they are the ones imposing security checks.

Sometimes it's hard to know where to begin...

In the event of No Deal, both Ireland and the UK would need to police their respective sides of the border. Neither want to do this, but there likely would be no option not to, especially if there was no deal for any length of time.

Any checks at all would be increased checks. There is no border infrastructure. Sometimes it's easy to miss that you've even crossed the border and need to change your speed from mph to kph or vice versa.

I think you mean the Republic of Ireland, not Southern Ireland. Unless you think Cork and Kerry are at risk.

More importantly, while Ireland would be at risk, the fear is of violence returning in Northern Ireland. Not the Republic. If you can't grasp that, I'm not sure what you have to add to the conversation. Please try for a second to imagine what it would be like to be living in NI ATM.

Any resumption of violence will be squarely, 100 percent on the UK's head. Ireland and the EU aren't the ones tearing up an international peace treaty.

The only message the Tories are sending those of us in NI, is that they couldn't give the tiniest of shits about us, to the extent that they're willing to risk our safety for their own little power struggles.

The only message the Tories are sending those of us in NI, is that they couldn't give the tiniest of shits about us, to the extent that they're willing to risk our safety for their own little power struggles.

This sums it up perfectly.

I think that any post which uses the term "Southern Ireland " should automatically be ignored as useless bollocks. Unless it's a weather report .

I think the DUP should remember what happened to the Lib Dem’s after the coalition but if they get wiped out I don’t think that is in anyway a bad thing the regressive cunts that they are

@bellinisurge agreed.

Northern Ireland exist. Southern Ireland? 💁‍♀️

Have no idea how the female symbol got there!