I am thinking EU should lift their backstop demand (Irish MNers?)

[YeOldeTrout]

Bear with me, I'm a rabid pro-EU person & Remainer, actually.

But if UK leaves on 'No Deal' we're going to have hard border in Ireland from 29/30 March 2019, anyway. If EU allows removal of backstop, there's (how ever long) transition period of UK abiding by GFA and no hard border, until end 2020 or end 2021 maybe. GFA may be screwed over after that given the parlous talents of UK to negotiate with EU, but at least there's a few extra yrs of peace and stability in Ireland first.

I know it's not EU policy to be like children 'kick the can down the road', but it's the lesser of evils, if removing Backstop demand could get WA approved by UK Parliament now.

EU will only lift Backstop if Ireland agrees. Would Ireland prefer hard-border. Is EU too proud? EU should only do this with mega-plans about supporting Ireland in threatened legal action of GFA violated at end of transition period.

Thoughts from Irish (including Norn) MNers?

It may also lead to WA which I have said we should accept countless times elsewhere. I will say it again here. If we have to leave we should leave like grown ups. Paying our bills and accepting our responsibilities. WA let's us do that.

lets even not let's

@Hesta the world does not revolve around England.

As a Scot I have pointedly said England as I am fed up to the back teeth with this shit

Why should they show any flexibility? I'm not surprised they're telling us to fuck ourselves.

Random18 Never presumed it did, but as a U.K. citizen if I have to pick a side, I obviously want the best deal possible for the U.K. ( As by now it’s obvious we’re leaving)

Random18 My Scottish in laws are dreading the very remote possibility of a 2 Indy referendum, they never really got over the last one and the divisions it caused.

@Hesta54 WA is better than No Deal. It's shit but it's not national economic catastrophe. Don't believe my description of No Deal? Ask the MoD.

The WA is actually a very good deal IF your starting point is May's red lines. The only way of changing it is to make it worse.

@Hesta it was horrible. I don’t actually live in a scotland so never got a vote but I would have voted No.
But with Brexit and the way things are I think a 2nd referendum would potentially have a different outcome.
Not sure how I feel about that now - i’m Just so disgusted with everything.
Once Brexit is done one way or another I may change my mind again.

I know some who want both independence and Brexit!!

The WA is an excellent chance to get the kettle on and sit around the table and discuss between the UK and EU how the UK wants to proceed. While this is happening most of life just continues.
If the UK negotiators are still going to be fighting among themselves like ferrets in a sack, then the EU can happily sit back and wait for them to come to their senses. In the meantime no one gets to die unnecessarily which is a good thing.
The EU based companies will judge by the way progress is made as to whether they want to remain in the UK or to just pull out altogether.
All very civilised.

'When Scotland was voting to leave the U.K. ,or not, there was little debate about the border.'

Ditto Brexit!

I think the difference with Scotland and the border, if it had left the UK, would have been that it would have immediately sought to join EFTA and been in the EEA - therefore no need for a customs border. Also it would have had a similar situation to Northern Ireland on EU citizenship - whereas Scotland the country would not have been in the EU, its citizens would have been, at least to start with, EU citizens as they would still have had British passports and border staff overseas would not have known if someone was Scottish or rUK from looking at their passports (except if you were born somewhere obviously Scottish but even then you could eg have English parents). Lots of people living in Scotland aren't Scottish born anyway and may be from the EU or other parts of the UK.

Random18 My Scottish in laws are dreading the very remote possibility of a 2 Indy referendum, they never really got over the last one and the divisions it caused.

Do they believe the UK's leaving the EU will mend those divisions and rifts? Genuine question.

In the event of a hard Brexit, I'm not convinced the possibility of a 2nd indy ref is at all remote, especially if there's another hard winter.

In the event of a hard Brexit, I'm not convinced the possibility of a 2nd indy ref is at all remote, especially if there's another hard winter.

I've gone from voting "No" to thinking I want a second referendum and that if Brexit is going to be as half as bad as I think it is, I'd vote yes because I don't see any way forward for us as the "united" kingdom any more. I know a lot of "no" voters who think the same way now. They wanted the status quo but since that's not possible...

CountessConstance Love your name, your namesake has been a hero of mine since childhood. Currently reading a biography of her. Wonder what she'd have made of this mess.

How's the pound sterling doing? There will be your answer.

Pound up, no Brexit.

Pound down, Brexit and uncertainty.

Just my humble opinion. So keep an eye on the markets.

That's interesting, Dino because indeed the 'Better Together' a lot of it was sold on not leaving the EU. And then this happened. Can't really see, if things go hard, people still thinking better together, IYKWIM.

My Scottish in laws are dreading the very remote possibility of a 2 Indy referendum, they never really got over the last one and the divisions it caused.

Having experienced both referendums Brexit makes Indyref 1 look like a tea party.

Still angst over indyref1 round here. Very much changed my attitude to ending my days in Scotland cos you'll always have roughly half the pop angry or bitter.

Very much changed my attitude to ending my days in Scotland cos you'll always have roughly half the pop angry or bitter.

Not sure about that. The current Brexit chaos seems to be uniting all sorts of differing opinions around here.

Very much changed my attitude to ending my days in Scotland cos you'll always have roughly half the pop angry or bitter.

Ditto England.

Do some of you actually think that TM will cancel Brexit at the last minute?

Just wondering about @Nicoala1 comment.

'Do some of you actually think that TM will cancel Brexit at the last minute? '

There is a theory that it has been her plan all along. She was / is a Remainer, albeit not a very passionate one. Exhaust every crazy option along the way, appear to be tough and decisive, pacify the ERG loonies as much as possible, but revoke at the very last minute and no doubt blame it all on the EU. It sounds like as likely an option as any at the moment

I agree with France's recent statement. UK want to leave. It is up to the UK to find an agreeable solution. It is not the EU's responsibility. GFA clearly states there cannot be a hard border ON the Island of Ireland. I'm not political. I do not want people in NI to suffer the consequences of some airy fairy politicians in UK. Sadly, NI are an after thought to the likes of May and Boris. They're being very reckless.

Well she seems to me to be full steam ahead with Brexit so I wouldn't be counting on her changing her narrative at the 11th hour.

I doubt that this has been her plan all along, however I do agree that the Brady amendment is designed to shift blame for a disastrous Brexit onto the EU and away from the Tories. It seems to be working to some extent looking at the headlines in the Telegraph.