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Brexit

Westminsterenders: Don't Panic. Really Don't Panic. Honestly Don't Panic.

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 24/01/2019 21:24

Brexit invoked the spirit of WWII's Churchill. Instead its shaping up to be more like Gallipolli...

...if Gallipolli had been instigated by Captain Mainwaring not Churchill.

The point has come where the exit button is being hit by businesses. Everywhere. In the absence of certainity they have no alternative. Its costing them a fortune already. Ford reported today that fortune was $800 billion. And amongst all the other problems widewide it was facing, which mean it is looking to cut costs, it looks grim for their 14,000 workers in the UK if we end up with no deal.

And still Esther does a video about how we should love WTO terms and a Tory MEP says Airbus's latest warnings are just Project Fear II. Its easy to say that if its not your job on the line I guess. Or your life.

And now the narrative of the prefect brexit has moved on. Again. At the start it was 'all the benefits of the EU minus migration, then 'a Norway style deal', then we went to 'Canada Plus is best, then 'lets no deal and go to WTO'. The latest is 'oh well we can ignore WTO rules at the start because they won't catch up with us for 18 months'. The absence of a plan and the hatred for the EU is growing in a worrying fashion, and there shouldn't be any doubt of where it seeks to go.

Jacob Rees-Mogg yesterday stated that May should prerogue parliament to ensure Brexit. Even though he is fully aware that the legislation even to enable WTO in the event of no deal is not in place. This is about as far removed from democracy as you can go, before you actively start openly advocating for its removal. This desire to close parliament had previously been expressed by one Tory MP and has since been repeated by David Jones MP and is liable to become the next big Brexiteer trope. Indeed reading twitter BEFORE JRM declaration, this view to shut down parliament was already being widely expressed.

Indeed one anonymous senior Tory MP has remarked this week; “If you knock on a door and they have books on their shelves, you can be pretty sure these days they’re not voting Tory”.

So people are stockpiling quietly. They are hoarding what medication they can. They are ridiculed in the media for it. And yet with government advice to business and the increasing awareness of supply chain problems, visa issues and the effect of Brexit on the GFA people are getting more and more concerned and nervous. Its almost as if government doesn't understand the mechanics of how the country functions.

People understand what is happening. They are the people who keep the production lines running and they are the people who ensure that people are fed and healthy and are kept safe. They aren't 'experts' just experts in their own lives and reality.

We move into next week with attempt two of May trying to get the WA through parliament. It still seems inconceivable she can at this stage. But who knows?

Parliament is moving to try and remove no deal from the table. The Cooper- Boles Amendment is the one to watch. Despite this stopping no deal is still beyond their control under certain circumstances. No deal happens on 29th March regardless of whether we are ready. Unless we extend or revoke, and extending is beyond the scope of our parliament alone. And extending still fails to remove the threat of no deal at a later stage. It merely prolongs the agony and uncertainty. We are in desparate need of a resolution which formerly ties us closely to the EU in whatever form that comes.

On the other hand, there are moves tonight for a Murrison II amendment to end the backstop that is being backed by both Graham Brady and close May ally and deal supporter Damien Green. This is in contrast to the EU who today have doubled down in saying the backstop is none negogiable and the WA will not be ratified by the EU if there are changes to the backstop. So it looks like we may be headed for a collision course on this, which could result in No Deal.

We are now also told from a senior government source, that Theresa May has had, in the last few days, "a lightbulb moment as to the impact of no-deal on British manufacturing." as if this is supposed to reassure us. This is 2 and a half years after she became Prime Minister.

Its only a matter of time before national anxieties across the country progress into full on outright panic. We are getting very close to that moment.

For our sanity and for all our futures we need this government to take back control from the ERG and their ilk who are leading us down a path to destruction. Before its too late.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
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2beesornot2beesthatisthehoney · 25/01/2019 21:48

Sorry for the typo buy not busy!

SalrycLuxx · 25/01/2019 21:50

Ummm....apparently the Civil service says hard Brexit will mean:

“A reduction in certain fresh foods and increases in prices, with people on low incomes disproportionately affected.

Price rises across utilities and services including fuel.
Private companies “cashing in” because they will put commercial considerations first.

Police forces being stretched by the likelihood of protests and counter-protests, along with an increase in public disorder.

Restocking of medicines becoming problematic after the first six weeks.

Disruption of supplies to vets, which could “impact the UK’s ability to prevent and control disease outbreaks” among animals.

A significant reduction in the flow of goods through Dover and Eurotunnel to as low as 13% of current capacity on the day of Brexit.”

But on the plus side they are actually trying to train/make civil servants aware now.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jan/25/cabinet-office-compares-no-deal-brexit-to-iceland-ash-cloud-chaos

bananacake2134 · 25/01/2019 21:59

What are you doing, banana, and where are you castigating the English from

What am I doing? Just thinking. Your second clause is not in English.

I think you are turning righteous anger into personal turmoil. I'm sorry but I have my own shit and and not going to get dragged into your obsessions

We've had to listen to your endless mawkish shite about baked bean stashes for months.

What we are facing is martial law enforced by an english state.

Quietrebel · 25/01/2019 22:00

Scary...
However, I think it's noteworthy that amidst the chaos the £ has gone up from 1.1 to the € to 1.16
That's about 5.5%
Do markets not believe in brexaggedon?

umpteennamechanges · 25/01/2019 22:01

Latest from Peston

"I learned two things yesterday that will give extra frisson to those votes on Tuesday, when MPs attempt to wrest control of Brexit from the PM.

First is that the six Tory MPs on the executive of the 1922 committee that comprises all Tory MPs, and who are led by Sir Graham Brady, hope and expect the Prime Minister to give official backing to the amendment to her motion that they have all signed.

It “requires the Northern Ireland backstop to be replaced with alternative arrangements to avoid a hard border; supports leaving the European Union with a deal and would therefore support the Withdrawal Agreement subject to this change”.

The amendment is in the name of Andrew Murrison, and it is a revolt by the men and women in grey suits (the cliché for backbench Tory grandees) – and indeed her former deputy, Damian Green, has also signed it – to force the PM back to the negotiating table with Brussels to flush out whether there is in practice a negotiable Brexit deal that the Tory Party and Northern Ireland DUP could support.

“I would hope there is a three-line whip to support this” one of the signatories told me. “We are trying to help the PM” another said (with a hint of menace, I thought).

This puts the PM in a very tight spot.

On the one hand, she will understand the logic of Brady, Murrison et al that if their motion were passed, that would surely demonstrate to the EU’s 27 leaders that “all” they have to do to secure parliamentary ratification of the Withdrawal Agreement and the Brexit plan is ditch the backstop and come up with different arrangements to keep open the border.

On the other, the PM also knows that the EU’s negotiators and the Irish government would interpret her giving official backing to the amendment as in effect ripping up the Withdrawal Agreement – and far from encouraging the EU to amend and compromise, it could be what forces the EU’s 27 leaders to conclude that no “reasonable” deal will ever be negotiable.

There is also the risk, as I pointed out last night, that the amendment is a snake that eats itself. What do I mean?

It might be sensible of the EU’s 27 leaders to say that they are happy to have another go – against their profound instincts – of looking for alternative arrangements to keep open the border between Northern Ireland and the Republic (although they are profoundly sceptical about the proposal put forward by the ERG group of Brexiters that the UK would simply promise not to ship anything to the EU that didn’t meet EU standards, and that the EU could have its own customs officials and technology at borders to make sure those standards were met). To state the magnificently obvious, they don’t actually seek a hard, no-deal Brexit.

But it is inconceivable such a compromise could be found by the deadline for Brexit of 29 March, and therefore if the UK wants to explore a way to drop the backstop there would have to be a significant delay to the date we leave the EU.

And the point is that most of the signatories and supporters of Murrison/Brady amendment would say Brexit delay would be as bad or worse than the backstop – which means that fulfilling the terms of their amendment would at a stroke guarantee their eternal opposition to the Brexit plan.

So the stakes could not be higher – and the outlook for all this could not be messier.

Now, what if the PM refuses – for what her close advisers and cabinet colleagues would say are sensible pragmatic reasons – to instruct her chief whip Julian Smith to force all her MPs, including ministers, to back the Murrison/Brady amendment?

As I understand it, Brady briefed the chief whip about the amendment before it was tabled. So May can be under no illusion that her senior backbenchers expect her to put her imprimatur on their initiative.

So this is where the second thing I learned yesterday kicks in.

What a number of MPs explained to me is that the idea Theresa May is safe in office for up to another year, following the failed coup by the Brexiter MPs just before Christmas, is not just wrong, but hopelessly wrong.

And truthfully after they explained why to me, I felt rather foolish.

The point is that – following her ill-judged general election that cost her the Tory Party’s majority – she only survives in office thanks to the support of Northern Ireland’s 10 DUP MPs (whose loyalty has been tested to breaking point by the backstop).

So here in the words of one senior Tory is the arithmetic that is fatal to her. “All that needs to happen is that ten of us troop in to see her and tell her that we will vote against every piece of government legislation unless and until she resigns, and at that point she has to pack her bags”.

So are Brady and co plotting such a “people-in-grey-suits” coup against her in the event that she fails to give her official support to their amendment?

I have no reason to believe that.

But should she be anxious that such a coup won’t follow very far behind any refusal by her to tear up the backstop – or indeed a failure to prevent delay to the due date of leaving the EU?

She would be naïve to ignore that threat to her survival as PM. Theresa May is not naïve."

RedToothBrush · 25/01/2019 22:01

George Trefgarne @georgetrefgarne
I think we need to institute a new weekly competition to be called the Brextwit Awards for leading Leavers or Remainers who say the most ridiculous things. This week we’d have to hand out dozens of them. Mentioning no names....

OP posts:
PerverseConverse · 25/01/2019 22:01

What did Banana say that got deleted??

OhLookHeKickedTheBall · 25/01/2019 22:04

I'm still catching up but can I offer an ohlook kitty?

Westminsterenders: Don't Panic. Really Don't Panic. Honestly Don't Panic.
ThereWillBeAdequateFood · 25/01/2019 22:04

We've had to listen to your endless mawkish shite about baked bean stashes for months. What we are facing is martial law enforced by an english state

I’m not following you. Surely having a decent stash of food / supplies is a good idea if you are in fear of martial law.

You sound really angry. But I’m not really
Sure why you are angry with people on this site.

Ta1kinPeace · 25/01/2019 22:05

Yo!
Did Banana accuse me of being British
ROTFLMAO

Quietrebel · 25/01/2019 22:05

Actually, meant 6% increase!

lonelyplanetmum · 25/01/2019 22:05

I went out again and the threads gone all cat-ish.

Here is one of my boys ( he's deaf and yes his eyes don't match).

Westminsterenders: Don't Panic. Really Don't Panic. Honestly Don't Panic.
Quietrebel · 25/01/2019 22:06

Goodness this thread is moving fast!

Ta1kinPeace · 25/01/2019 22:07

lonely
he's GORGEOUS

durgha · 25/01/2019 22:08

banana,you've gone from accusing people of being fascists, to complaining about their/my grammar. Are you just posting to stop discussion about Brexit?

borntobequiet · 25/01/2019 22:08

Something about clauses. Perhaps cat related and misspelt? We’ll never know now. Hoping to get back to normal tomorrow.

SwedishEdith · 25/01/2019 22:16

I don't know if anyone caught this but worth listening to -Shock an actual expert on BBC5Live - Dmitry Grozoubinski.

soundcloud.com/dmitry-grozoubinski/no-deal-brexit-dmitry-grozoubinski-with-adrian-chiles-and-friends-bbc5live

Ta1kinPeace · 25/01/2019 22:17

News just now
The RoI / UK Border is 320 miles long but has more crossing points than US / Canada
A useful perspective

bellinisurge · 25/01/2019 22:19

@bananacake2134 what you are talking about is a prepper conversation not a political conversation.
I freely admit to have been directing non- Preppers over to the Prepper topic for some advice. I'm sure that plenty of Preppers are fed up that I have been doing so and Brexit prepping has dominated that topic.
You want to talk tactics and strategies with other armchair warriors in advance of a coming civil war or whatever you are into, take it over there. Right now you are doing a very good "we're all doomed" impression and it isn't getting you very far.

lonelyplanetmum · 25/01/2019 22:20

He is very modest about his beauty too Ta1kinpeace

bananacake2134 · 25/01/2019 22:25

Talking I know you are american. Still puzzled why you think it's funny for your kid to dress up as a fascist, but there we are.

where are you castigating the English from
This clause still makes no sense. Sorry.

Are you just posting to stop discussion about Brexit au contraire

I was deleted for reminding everyone that Trump is a rapist of women above and below the age of consent.

And beyond that I wish you all of you, your baked beans and your cats well in your fight against fascism.

On present form I imagine it is going to turn out very badly for you all.

OlennasWimple · 25/01/2019 22:25

Oh this thread is sad.

Both the personal tragedies ( Flowers to Pretty and PCPlum) but also because these threads are normally little havens of intelligent discussion, where we disagree with each other but in a thoughtful and constructive way.

Please can we get back to that? We can regard this thread as like that time Uncle Bill got plastered at Christmas and told everyone what he thought of them then promptly fell asleep and couldn't remember in the morning, so everyone pretended it never happened and never mentioned it again

Ta1kinPeace · 25/01/2019 22:32

@bananacake2134
why did Vladimir send you here?
you have not influenced views?
Friday night is not great for thread derailment
and accusing me of being a fascist is so surreal I CBA to report you

do you have anything constructive to add to the discussion?

I shall wake up in the morning and have yummy breakfast and get on with my day Grin

PestymcPestFace · 25/01/2019 22:34

Murrison is not the saviour of Brexit, he just wants to put a time bound on the backstop, therefore the GFA.

GoldenSyrupLion · 25/01/2019 22:35

This thread's been infected .

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