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Brexit

Westminstenders: At the point of collapse?

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 19/01/2019 23:30

May is in trouble. The Tory Party are in trouble.

Brexit is not in trouble, but we certainly are.

May's problem is she has no way forward.

One the one hand, the ERG will not accept anything to soften Brexit. That's an extension or Norway. Or a second ref. The story tonight emerging of Rees-Mogg as 'peacemaker' is quite the opposite. Its a thinly veiled threat saying if you do not please the ERG we will split and no longer support the PM. They will quiet simply threaten to collapse the government if May decides on that course. Their gamble will be that with the Tories ahead in the polls, they can get enough seats to enable no deal or cause enough chaos to cause accidental no deal. Thus forcing out One Nation Tories from the party.

One the other hand if May does not soften Brexit, rumour has it that 20 ministers including several cabinet, will walk. There is talk of cabinet ministers supporting a second ref and of others supporting Nick Boles proposals and demanding a free vote on the matter.

May on the other hand seemed determined to pursue plan A which is now plan B, in the form of the WA. In order to do this her plan was go for cross party talks and a compromise. The trouble is May doesn't understand what the word compromise means, because... Well see above about the two factions within the Tory Party presenting a bit of an issue to that. She felt the WA was the only way to stop the party split / stop the government collasping.

In addition to this we have Labour trying to avoid a split. Corbyn had his ridiculous starting point to cross party talks being completely impossible for May. You can't take no deal off the table if it is the table. Corbyn was essentially asking directly for a revocation or extension to A50 clause. May could not agree to that because... Well see above.

Corbyn is now talking about whipping against Grieve's amendment which sort to create a cross party consensus. Bizarrely grieves suggestion seemed to be for a minority rather than majority which rather undermined it, by Corbyn's real motivation is about his power, preventing a centre consensus and possible splits in the Labour Party.

Corbyn merely wants to be obstructive, and block everything now as he thinks May and the Conservative Party are doomed to fail and the government will fail. And arguably this is a good and sensible calculation as things stand.

May's next Meaningful vote is due on the 29th Jan. But 28th Feb is pencilled in for a general election. Meaning it would have to be called by Thursday this week.

Will it happen?

We find out, not on this thread, but the next one... Or maybe even the one after that!

PS there was a bomb in Londonderry. And there's talk of a bilateral treaty with Ireland (a euphemisms for renegotiating the GFA).

Brexit was always ultimately about NI.

OP posts:
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Apileofballyhoo · 21/01/2019 00:08

Perverse, because it enshrined the rights of the minority to be treated as equals of the majority.

And because border poll. And because Ulster says no, and because the Empire, and because the Tories.

PerverseConverse · 21/01/2019 00:13

SleightOfMind

Apileofballyhoo ah. I see. Power. Thank you.

ThereWillBeAdequateFood · 21/01/2019 00:14

Thanks for the hot choc perverse I like a splash of rum in mine.

The GFA is getting in the way of Brexit. Therefore it must be destroyed. There’s lots of other things that get in the way of Brexit

Thinking
The economy not going down the shitter
Human rights

But what you must remember is that nothing, nothing can be more important than Brexit. dunks biscuits in hot choc whilst rocking in the corner

Hazardswans · 21/01/2019 00:17

I'm the only person I know who puts alcohol in hot choc Perverse are you me?

I baked ginger cake today. Leftovers for breakfast.

Apileofballyhoo · 21/01/2019 00:17

I'm thinking of getting up again. I know where there are some chocolate biscuits.

When the troubles started in the 60s Ireland was on its own and helpless really. And the inhabitants of the six counties weren't EU citizens. They are now. Even if the GFA is declared null and void by the UK, it would only be the UK saying it. Ireland is part of the EU now. It's different. It must be different.

Apileofballyhoo · 21/01/2019 00:20

I am thinking of making hot chocolate too. And I remembered there's brandy.

PerverseConverse · 21/01/2019 00:23

I have never put alcohol in hot chocolate before but figured we all needed it. It's called a La Mumba I think? Or was when I went to Kos in the 80s.

Hazardswans · 21/01/2019 00:25

Who have I been knowing? Everyone looks at me in horror if I say i put brandy/rum/tequila in hot choc. Now there's a thread full of it....

PestymcPestFace · 21/01/2019 00:31

Tea in one hand, whiskey in the other.

Westminstenders: At the point of collapse?
SleightOfMind · 21/01/2019 00:35

Gove has long been a bitter opponent of the GFA, as are many free market politicians.

He wrote a pamphlet called ‘The Price of Peace’ a few years after the agreement, denouncing it as akin to Nazi appeasement or legitimising paedophilia.

That’s the level of hatred the free marketeers have for regulations imposed by the state to protect vulnerable minorities.
They’ve been an influential group in Conservative circles since just before Margaret Thatcher was first elected.

SleightOfMind · 21/01/2019 00:39

Btw, said pamphlet has been scrupulously removed from all sites and marketplaces.

DS1(17) didn’t believe it could have been totally wiped from the internet but is now thoroughly spooked to discover how assiduously its been removed.

SleightOfMind · 21/01/2019 00:41

DH suggested ‘Frenching up’ the turkey soup this Xmas (brandy).
Giving my liver a rest plus work and DC tomorrow. Sad

Hazardswans · 21/01/2019 00:41

Sleight - must be hardcopies somewhere?

pest good view, we just have clouds tonight.

SusanWalker · 21/01/2019 00:43

I'll have a glass of amaretto and an amaretti biscuit please.

I shall celebrate getting DS to take his fluoxetine after a long and frustrating week in which he was given a different brand and then refused to take it as it was different and well autism. Have managed to get some of his original brand and he has taken it. This episode does not inspire any feelings of confidence about medication in a no deal scenario.

Tomorrow I'm going to make flapjack and I have ordered tinned pineapple on my shop for pineapple upside down cake.

Also ordered quite a bit for the storecupboard. Tesco had jammy Dodgers double packs on offer.

Hazardswans · 21/01/2019 00:49

Susan is it a slow release tablet? I have heard stories of Mum's resorting to crushing tablets and hiding them with their kids who have ASD when necessary.

SusanWalker · 21/01/2019 00:54

No it's a liquid he can't swallow tablets. It started with the bottle not being right, then it didn't taste the same and that was it. I can't hide it in a drink as I did that once with his melatonin in desperation and he realised what I'd done and refused to drink anything for nearly 24 hours just in case I'd drugged it.

Apileofballyhoo · 21/01/2019 00:58

Flowers Susan. Glad you got some bits for the store cupboard.

PestymcPestFace · 21/01/2019 01:01

www.irishtimes.com/news/world/uk/michael-gove-a-fanatic-who-would-damage-peace-process-1.2710224

Note to self, find copy tomorrow

Westminstenders: At the point of collapse?
SusanWalker · 21/01/2019 01:03

Yes I slacked off on it over Christmas because of the money. I need to tidy out my cupboard and make a list of what I've got as I keep slinging things in the back and have lost track. It's the realisation that we are only a few weeks away that has given me a push.

I must sort out the freezer in a few weeks time and keep an eye out for reduced meat to freeze down.

PestymcPestFace · 21/01/2019 01:12

Got it Grin

Hazardswans · 21/01/2019 01:13

Susan oh thats so tricky for him (and frustrating for you!) Flowers Clutching at straws.... if it happens again and you have one bottle of medicine he is used to could you pour a little of the new in? So you would be diluting the medicine flavour he's used to but over time? Have a dose of the good stuff, refill with the new, rinse and repeat until the bottle is replaced with new medicine.

All y'know the chemist could just have access to the right one that would be easier!

Night all, may your dreams be brexit free.

Apileofballyhoo · 21/01/2019 01:32

www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-22609774

www.google.com/amp/www.thejournal.ie/michael-gove-peace-process-pm-brexit-2861623-Jul2016/%3famp=1

www.google.com/amp/s/www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2018/11/the-price-of-peace/amp/

^It [The Good Friday Agreement] enshrines a vision of human rights which
privileges contending minorities at the expense of the democratic
majority. It supplants the notion of independent citizens with one
of competing client groups. It offers social and economic rights:
“positive rights” which legitimise a growing role for bureaucratic
agencies in the re-distribution of resources, the running of
companies, the regulation of civic life and the exercise of personal
choice. It turns the police force into a political plaything whose
legitimacy depends on familiarity with fashionable social theories
and precise ethnic composition and not effectiveness in
maintaining order. It uproots justice from its traditions and makes
it politically contentious. It demeans traditional expressions of
British national identity. And it privileges those who wish to
refashion or deconstruct that identity.^

SleightOfMind · 21/01/2019 01:52

Susan that’s tough.
I feel so bloody helpless with all of this. I’m trying very hard not to get angry but when I hear about people who already have much to contend with suffering these anxieties it’s hard to stay calm.

Many people are working hard to stop this madness. I wish I could say I was confident about the outcome but I’m going to use my anger to try harder.

Pesty! That’s great.
He’s tried very hard to erase it. Wouldn’t it be good if we could convert it to pdf and send copies out 😈

mathanxiety · 21/01/2019 02:40

I can't believe those who think the car bomb was the work of people who had understandably "snapped". They are terrorists FFS. I frequently snap but I don't set off a fucking bomb!
JaneHare

Biscuit

And what's your point, Clavinova?
If you recalled life before the GFA you wouldn't be suggesting things are as bad as they ever were.

PestymcPestFace · 21/01/2019 02:53

PDF stored and already sent to a few parties.
Physical copies are in several uni libraries.