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Brexit

Westminstenders: At the point of collapse?

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 19/01/2019 23:30

May is in trouble. The Tory Party are in trouble.

Brexit is not in trouble, but we certainly are.

May's problem is she has no way forward.

One the one hand, the ERG will not accept anything to soften Brexit. That's an extension or Norway. Or a second ref. The story tonight emerging of Rees-Mogg as 'peacemaker' is quite the opposite. Its a thinly veiled threat saying if you do not please the ERG we will split and no longer support the PM. They will quiet simply threaten to collapse the government if May decides on that course. Their gamble will be that with the Tories ahead in the polls, they can get enough seats to enable no deal or cause enough chaos to cause accidental no deal. Thus forcing out One Nation Tories from the party.

One the other hand if May does not soften Brexit, rumour has it that 20 ministers including several cabinet, will walk. There is talk of cabinet ministers supporting a second ref and of others supporting Nick Boles proposals and demanding a free vote on the matter.

May on the other hand seemed determined to pursue plan A which is now plan B, in the form of the WA. In order to do this her plan was go for cross party talks and a compromise. The trouble is May doesn't understand what the word compromise means, because... Well see above about the two factions within the Tory Party presenting a bit of an issue to that. She felt the WA was the only way to stop the party split / stop the government collasping.

In addition to this we have Labour trying to avoid a split. Corbyn had his ridiculous starting point to cross party talks being completely impossible for May. You can't take no deal off the table if it is the table. Corbyn was essentially asking directly for a revocation or extension to A50 clause. May could not agree to that because... Well see above.

Corbyn is now talking about whipping against Grieve's amendment which sort to create a cross party consensus. Bizarrely grieves suggestion seemed to be for a minority rather than majority which rather undermined it, by Corbyn's real motivation is about his power, preventing a centre consensus and possible splits in the Labour Party.

Corbyn merely wants to be obstructive, and block everything now as he thinks May and the Conservative Party are doomed to fail and the government will fail. And arguably this is a good and sensible calculation as things stand.

May's next Meaningful vote is due on the 29th Jan. But 28th Feb is pencilled in for a general election. Meaning it would have to be called by Thursday this week.

Will it happen?

We find out, not on this thread, but the next one... Or maybe even the one after that!

PS there was a bomb in Londonderry. And there's talk of a bilateral treaty with Ireland (a euphemisms for renegotiating the GFA).

Brexit was always ultimately about NI.

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GD12 · 20/01/2019 23:27

For all intense purposes, it looks like she's trying to hasten a no deal!

GD12 · 20/01/2019 23:28

^intents

RedToothBrush · 20/01/2019 23:29

Somerville, lets not forget that No Deal effectively breaks the GFA.

As you say, "It’s not a big jump from needs to be amended to not fit for purpose."

What reason does May have to start this conversation, and more to the point, why did the Telegraph run the story in the way they did AFTER the Irish said 'You are having a laugh'.

Its ground work.

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PestymcPestFace · 20/01/2019 23:31

For Brexit to work the GFA will need rewriting. But that time is 50 years off. To suggest it now is inflammatory and aggressive.

I am assuming she will stop short of declaring war on Ireland. However, some Tory MPs have suggested Ireland should also leave the EU. She will also need to sort out the wee problem of Stormont not sitting first. She does not have a leg or antique pedestal to stand on.

World opinion does now seem to be turning to the UK having lost the plot.

GD12 · 20/01/2019 23:33

Unless she's appearing bat shit crazy to harden support for the anti no deal ammendments? It takes the blame away from her if Brexit is delayed or A50 revoked. She could say "I tried my best".

Somerville · 20/01/2019 23:34

Red I could really do with you laughing at me for such a preposterously shit suggestion about now.
But yes, you’re right - she doesn’t need to actively dismantle GFA, just not do anything, watch the shit show of no-deal unfold, and the GFA implode, and then blame RoI for failing to amend it with her. (Just like she’s blaming Corbyn for failure of cross party talks.)
Groundwork indeed.
Fucking hell I’m actually scared.

SingingBabooshkaBadly · 20/01/2019 23:35

Caller: I don't know, some technological solution
Radio presenter: oh really? Who's working on that then?
Caller: Hmm, Microsoft is!

lol

Loletta Phew! So Microsoft will save the day! But hang on...what if the border uses Apple..? Grin

RedToothBrush · 20/01/2019 23:36

Also, watch out for the narrative of how the New IRA have started bombing therefore Ireland has broken the GFA so the UK is no longer bound by it...

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Somerville · 20/01/2019 23:40

The calls for a referendum about a reunited Ireland in a no-deal scenario won’t work without the GFA either. That right is enshrined within the GFA.

GD12 · 20/01/2019 23:41

Somerville that's a very good and scary though. Remember, she'd also invoke the Civil Contingencies act and rule like dictator. 😮

PestymcPestFace · 20/01/2019 23:43

What if the world just thinks the UK has gone insane and do something like give our UN seat to India?

We would deserve it, we are not acting rationally.

Some of the crap has to come back and bite our arse.

PestymcPestFace · 20/01/2019 23:44

Human rights are also enshrined by GFA.

SingingBabooshkaBadly · 20/01/2019 23:47

Argh! Sorry. Just realised the thread has moved on several pages so posting badly out of context in reply to an ancient post by Loletta.

I wonder though, does her mental health need looking into? Her actions are becoming more & more erratic and unhinged.

Tokyo - I’ve been wondering this for weeks.
This GFA stuff though...it’s taking it to a whole new level of crazy ‘it’s the GFA, that’s the fly in the ointment. Oh ok - well, let’s just rewrite it then. Job done.’

ThereWillBeAdequateFood · 20/01/2019 23:49

Also, watch out for the narrative of how the New IRA have started bombing therefore Ireland has broken the GFA so the UK is no longer bound by it...

Ok now I’m really scared.

Apileofballyhoo · 20/01/2019 23:49

She's made noises about doing away with a few human rights already, Pesty. TBH the GFA was my first thought when I read that.

PestymcPestFace · 20/01/2019 23:53

The whole world is watching the negotiations.

They don't seem to be thinking "Ah, fantastic negotiators who won't blink first" more "WTF, my toddler is more reasonable"

Apileofballyhoo · 20/01/2019 23:53

People are being called traitors about Brexit. They'll be called traitors about NI and the GFA too. All for the cult of Tory.

PestymcPestFace · 20/01/2019 23:54

Apile she has made loads of noises about human rights, mainly getting rid of them. Makes me think she has never read GFA.

TheWomanin12B · 20/01/2019 23:57

I'm really scared now.

Apathy and ignorance abound surrounding No Deal and now this GFA 'amendment' too.

I've always thought the govt intention was to run down the clock to No Deal and nothing currently is comforting me that it won't happen. Christ.

BigChocFrenzy · 21/01/2019 00:00

If you think Gove is a "sane" Brexiter in the Cabinet, consider this ..

Gove wrote a diatribe against the GFA several years ago, saying it was like surrender to paedophiles, giving in to the IRA 🤦🏻‍♀️

Some Brexiteers have always wanted to destroy the GFA - it's a side benefit of Brexit to them -
whereas others are just indifferent - it is acceptable collateral damage to them

However, no Brexiter would consider the GFA important enough to change Brexit

Apileofballyhoo · 21/01/2019 00:00

Someone was painstakingly explaining to someone else on the no deal thread I think, that TM has to threaten no deal because that's what strong negotiators do. I felt like saying do you not think the EU know her big ploy? Except it's not a ploy now. Now it's insane.

I actually thought her WA was quite good tbh, from a Brexit perspective - she got rid of FoM and managed to get all of the UK into the CU.
Oh well. I'd say she's in an absolute rage with the opposition parties for not voting for the WA. And not with her own MPs.

PerverseConverse · 21/01/2019 00:00

I'm too wide awake with worry to sleep.

SleightOfMind · 21/01/2019 00:01

If the backbench amendments heroically force May to request an extension to the March 29 deadline, what are they going to offer as an inducement?

The EU has, reasonably imo, said they are unlikely to get agree to extend for less than a GE or a PV with remain as an option.

Both those things are surely only in the gift of the ruling party, now that Tory rebels and Labour have shot their NC bolts?

PerverseConverse · 21/01/2019 00:04

Please could someone explain why anyone would be against the GFA and why? My head can't compute that.

SleightOfMind · 21/01/2019 00:04

Me too Perverse. Not fretting as such but my thoughts are too rattly for sleep right now.