Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Brexit

Westministenders: May dug a deep stinky hole and UK politics has tumbled in

999 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 16/01/2019 15:17

May almost certainly won't resign even after this huge defeat.

She's survived umpteen other humiliating defeats.
Her record strongly suggests she'll cling on to office with broken fingernails until Brexit (or Revoke) happens

After the ERG failed to topple her last month, she can legally stay as Tory party leader at least until December.
Besides, would any of her likely successors as Tory Party leader - Leadsome, Boris, JRM, Gove - be any better ... or bring even worse horrors ?

Corbyn has called a No Confidence vote
NC debate to be held at 7pm today.

He'll lose, because the DUP and the ERG - who voted down her WA - have genuine Confidence in her, of course 🤔

The Labour Party conference agreed their policy would be to get a GE, but failing that to go for a PV.
However, Corbyns latest statement is still against a PV
Will he finally give in, or try to out-stubborn May ?

The HoC doesn't want No Deal - but can't yet agree what they do want.
if they and / or May don't specifically choose something else, then No Deal is what automatically happens

May had told the cabinet she'd just keep pushing the WA, but it's now a dead parrot of a WA.

So she's "reaching out" to the other parties whom she's rudely rejected for the last 2.5 years
Maybe ongoing cross-party talks will ignore her and succeed on agreeing a new approach
BUT
The EU have said they will only renegotiate if the UK drops some of its red lines
Otherwise it's either this unchange WA or No Deal

Many analysts think this impasse means that May will have to ask the EU for an A50 extension.
She keeps saying she won't delay Brexit - but after she became PM she kept denying she'd hold a GE, right up until she announced it.

EU officials have hinted they would extend until the end of June.
However, an extension would have to be unanimously approved.
Would any of the 27 countries veto, in exasperation with the UK's ridiculous performance the last 2 years ?

I know on Westministenders we're all exasperated with it !

OP posts:
Thread gallery
20
DGRossetti · 17/01/2019 16:11

My suspicion is that most movement is going to come from backbenchers, tabling bills and amendments now, anyway.

Is that possible ? I thought Leadsom had wiped anything Brexit off the legislative timetable in order to prevent such shenanigans.

Funny how delivering democracy seems to require ignoring it ?

1tisILeClerc · 17/01/2019 16:11

I'm just so glad that none of this is at all serious.

borntobequiet · 17/01/2019 16:12

It’s a bit circular, because if she does ask for an extension it will be because she has realised she has no choice but to do so, which in itself is surely a pretty meaningful change...

Hasenstein · 17/01/2019 16:12

The Deputy Leader of something called the Renew Party

They were quite visible (well, had some placards) at the Parliament Square rally around Tuesday's vote. Said they were a new movement hoping to involve people not generally engaged in politics, having originally modelled themselves on Marcon's En Marche. I was going to ask how they'd diverged from that model, but was interrupted and the moment was gone. Either that or my feet were so frozen by then that I keeled over.

DGRossetti · 17/01/2019 16:12

Bearing in mind we've had over a year of Theresa May saying one thing whilst doing another, I feel inclined to cut Corbyn some slack on this ...

thecatfromjapan · 17/01/2019 16:13

Ooh. I missed that, DGR. 😁

Good grief.

What a travesty.

Worst.government.ever.

BishBoshBashBop · 17/01/2019 16:13

I agree with the reporter on Sky. It appears at the moment that neither the PM nor Corbyn are in charge of their respective parties.

DGRossetti · 17/01/2019 16:14

Said they were a new movement hoping to involve people not generally engaged in politics

I think we now know the dangers of that approach ... even if "successful" you get a surge of votes, and then a wave of apathy following them up.

I wonder what their analysis of the causes of political disengagement are ?

thecatfromjapan · 17/01/2019 16:14

Honestly, we should be rioting.

I do think it's the right-wing press that keeps us docile.

This is disgraceful.

May imposing s Deal no-one wants on Parliament and the UK after two years of lies.

That and austerity.

We must be idiots.

bellinisurge · 17/01/2019 16:18

Please don't joke about rioting or violence against MPs.
Some knobheads will use it as an excuse if it appears in civilised debate.
Yes I am fecking angry about how things are.

WickedGoodDoge · 17/01/2019 16:21

Said they were a new movement hoping to involve people not generally engaged in politics

Ah, I liked a David Lammy tweet a few days ago but generally avoid politics in my once every six months tweets so that’s probably why they followed me. It seemed a bit random. Grin

RedToothBrush · 17/01/2019 16:22

Is that possible ? I thought Leadsom had wiped anything Brexit off the legislative timetable in order to prevent such shenanigans.

Bercow has already supported Backbenchers to get an amendment to something that theorectically has been passed by the house with a specific clause meant to stop amendments.

Boles is trying to get backbench motions put forward without the need for either of the front benches to action them.

Bercow has made the point that he is not bound by the executive nor party politics and if the majority of the house signal that there is something there, I think he would enable somehow.

As it goes one of the best things in recent years in terms of constitutional reform has been to give backbench motions more opportunity to be heard without the official endorsement from a party. There's a lot to be said for extending this as it allows more cross party action on issues particularly those which have captured the publics attention but have been ignored by the party structure.

So expect more grandstanding over points of order over the next few weeks.

thecatfromjapan · 17/01/2019 16:23

I know but our Parliament has been seized . This is really, actually not democracy at the moment.

Let that sink in.

We should at least be protesting., peacefully.

Not blaming Corbyn, FGS.

thecatfromjapan · 17/01/2019 16:24

I'm glad to hear that, Red.

I shall put my protest coat back on the peg.

Motheroffourdragons · 17/01/2019 16:26

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ to protect the privacy of the user.

DGRossetti · 17/01/2019 16:26

Please don't joke about rioting or violence against MPs.

As someone once said: To jaw-jaw is better than to war-war.

Tasteless as they may be, jokes are not exhortations to act. And if we want to talk about exhortations to violence, let's look closer at the Leave side of the fence ....

RedToothBrush · 17/01/2019 16:27

www.thesun.co.uk/news/brexit/8219202/theresa-may-forced-to-scrap-trip-to-davos-summit-with-world-leaders-thanks-to-brexit-chaos/amp/?__twitter_impression=true
Theresa May forced to SCRAP trip to Davos summit with world leaders thanks to Brexit chaos
The Prime Minister was planning to attend the annual summit in Switzerland next week

As a side note to this, Trump has been hinting he may not go 'due to the wall crisis'.

RedToothBrush · 17/01/2019 16:28

And what is Cable doing?

Pissing in the wind.

Tanith · 17/01/2019 16:29

I think I've seen Renew mentioned before: aren't they hoping to be the new Centralist party?

Anyway, here's their website:

www.renewparty.org.uk/

DGRossetti · 17/01/2019 16:30

No, not naive DGR - Clegg caused the lib dems to appear untrustworthy and that means nobody votes for them.

But only because the English are an electorate that didn't/doesn't know how to process coalitions. Aided in great part by a media either too thick to understand, or too wedded to their paymasters.

As a result we are where we are now. And the future ain't looking so rosy either. Which is a shame, because I have a feeling that the next election - whenever - is unlikely to deliver anything like a workable majority. If there's a majority at all.

And what is Cable doing? Wittering about not supporting any more votes of no confidence. Let's not forget also that he and Farron failed to turn up for a crucial vote last year - more evidence should it be necessary, that they really are a shower of useless individual

Now there's nothing I can really dispute in that Sad

DGRossetti · 17/01/2019 16:32

Theresa May forced to scrap trip to Davos summit

I wonder if memories of Maggie in Paris run deep ?

IsobelKarev · 17/01/2019 16:33

May's absolute refusal to back down ever (presumably because she's a "bloody difficult woman") leads me to think that her either revoking A50, extending A50 or making any concessions to allow change to the WA is a pipe dream.

JC can't convince HoC to vote for no confidence and the Tories have to wait til Dec to challenge her leadership. I actually don't think there is anything anyone can do because May will not budge an inch. JC is a shit leader, but May was the one who went to the EU and negotiated a deal that she could never get through Parliament.

I'm still convinced that she did so assuming that revoke wasn't an option and always intended to threaten HoC in to voting for her own personal version of Brexit (ie her WA). Now she is the one who holds all the power to revoke (or not) she's determined to continue with plan A - keep threatening HoC with No Deal and expect them to cave in to accepting her WA. I also believe she is genuinely prepared to follow through on her threat rather than back down.

I, too, am sick of how angry Leavers will be if we have a PV, extension or revocation of A50. I was part of the 48% and I'm sick to the back teeth of MY opinions not mattering at all. There are literally millions of people in the country who never wanted Brexit, but because we aren't behaving like spoilt toddlers throwing a tantrum we are ignored by the government.

Its a long time since I was involved in public protests, but if it gets too close to a No Deal scenario that might have to change (peaceful protests obvs).

RedToothBrush · 17/01/2019 16:34

Hannah Al-Othman @ hannahalothman
I've spent all day speaking to Labour MPs and they're all pretty much united behind Jeremy Corbyn in his decision not engage with Theresa May.

Most said there was no point in engaging with talks while the prime minister refused to budge on any of her red lines.

One conceded that refusing to meet her may have been a mistake as it dominated headlines that should have been about the prime minister's failure to secure support from opposition MPs.

But many stressed the importance of no deal not being an option and were behind the leader.

.@wesstreeting spoke for many when he said: “If Theresa May wants to sit down with opposition politicians, including the Leader of the Opposition, she has to show at least some signs of willingness to compromise. It’s what people in the country want to see.

He added: "In the current circumstances, it is hard to see what would be achieved by Jeremy Corbyn meeting with the Prime Minister.

"Unless the Prime Minister is willing to compromise on key issues of concern, what is the point of meeting her?

Wes Streeting also said: "It is not too late for the Prime Minister to convene meaningful cross-party talks, but she must enter them with an open mind and genuine willingness to listen.”

Many Labour MPs fail to grasp that May can not remove no deal as an option as its the default, without first having an alternative plan which has the support of 315 MPs...

It is however fair comment of them to say its point to talk to May whilst she continues to have red lines everywhere and a closed mind.

The no deal thing is a red herring and just about party politics but it's now also a fundamental barrier to the way forward, in addition to May's red lines.

Sigh.

SwedishEdith · 17/01/2019 16:34

Renew have been around for a while. Parties/members/influencers often follow potential followers because they're hoping for follow backs to get their follower numbers up. I've got a Spanish politician who regularly follows/unfollows me (all automated, I assume). Richard Corbett's account does it as well.

Hasenstein · 17/01/2019 16:35

I wonder what their analysis of the causes of political disengagement are ?

Dunno. We never got that far in our budding relationship. Must have been political disengagement setting in early.

According to their website, they're a new party offering new hope with a new vision for fixing the problems of 21st century Britain. Lots of nice nouns on offer.

Good luck to 'em, I say.