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Brexit

Westministenders: May dug a deep stinky hole and UK politics has tumbled in

999 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 16/01/2019 15:17

May almost certainly won't resign even after this huge defeat.

She's survived umpteen other humiliating defeats.
Her record strongly suggests she'll cling on to office with broken fingernails until Brexit (or Revoke) happens

After the ERG failed to topple her last month, she can legally stay as Tory party leader at least until December.
Besides, would any of her likely successors as Tory Party leader - Leadsome, Boris, JRM, Gove - be any better ... or bring even worse horrors ?

Corbyn has called a No Confidence vote
NC debate to be held at 7pm today.

He'll lose, because the DUP and the ERG - who voted down her WA - have genuine Confidence in her, of course 🤔

The Labour Party conference agreed their policy would be to get a GE, but failing that to go for a PV.
However, Corbyns latest statement is still against a PV
Will he finally give in, or try to out-stubborn May ?

The HoC doesn't want No Deal - but can't yet agree what they do want.
if they and / or May don't specifically choose something else, then No Deal is what automatically happens

May had told the cabinet she'd just keep pushing the WA, but it's now a dead parrot of a WA.

So she's "reaching out" to the other parties whom she's rudely rejected for the last 2.5 years
Maybe ongoing cross-party talks will ignore her and succeed on agreeing a new approach
BUT
The EU have said they will only renegotiate if the UK drops some of its red lines
Otherwise it's either this unchange WA or No Deal

Many analysts think this impasse means that May will have to ask the EU for an A50 extension.
She keeps saying she won't delay Brexit - but after she became PM she kept denying she'd hold a GE, right up until she announced it.

EU officials have hinted they would extend until the end of June.
However, an extension would have to be unanimously approved.
Would any of the 27 countries veto, in exasperation with the UK's ridiculous performance the last 2 years ?

I know on Westministenders we're all exasperated with it !

OP posts:
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SusanWalker · 17/01/2019 15:40

Fair enough. I think you're right. I'm getting paranoid I think because no deal would be catastrophic for me, I'm in a very vulnerable posistion. And although I want to remain I would just like the posturing to stop and for the leaders to act like grown up and sort something out.

I very much agree that May is responsible for this clusterfuck.

DGRossetti · 17/01/2019 15:41

There's clearly an attempt by the media to try and jedi mind-trick the public into thinking this is now all Jeremy Corbyns fault.

And - maybe in a validation of his "keep low" media strategy, it's not really working ... most people are simply saying why should he be expected to clean up the Tory mess. Which I guess was always going to be the "con" (not - we're better than that !) in the pros and cons of the Theresa May month in the MSM.

BishBoshBashBop · 17/01/2019 15:42

There's a PV Bill coming up.

That doesn't need negotiation with other parties.

It does because MPs for it aren't sure they have the numbers.

DGRossetti · 17/01/2019 15:43

Would a PV bill have to outline the options, or just be a line in the sand for a final vote ?

thecatfromjapan · 17/01/2019 15:44

Yes, DG. I agree.

Even more reason not to try doing X-Party, 'national interest' with them.

Always, always remember what they did to the LibDems.Sad

DGRossetti · 17/01/2019 15:45

Elsewhere, Treezas old stomping ground facing legal challenge ...

www.theregister.co.uk/2019/01/17/data_protection_act_legal_challenge_immigration/

theregister.co.uk
Campaigners get go-ahead to challenge exemption UK gave itself over immigrants' data
17 Jan 2019 at 15:40
4-5 minutes
Sueball lobbed at Brit government over Data Protection Act

The High Court has agreed to hear a campaign group's case against the UK's Data Protection Act, which they say leaves immigrants with fewer rights over their data.

The sueball – lobbed by the Open Rights Group and EU citizens' group the3million – targets an exemption in the Act that was passed into law last May.

The groups want to remove this exemption from the Act, on the grounds that it is incompatible with the General Data Protection Regulation and the EU Charter of Fundamental Rights.

The exemption in question (schedule 2, part 1, paragraph 4) removes some data rights if that data is processed for the "maintenance of effective immigration control", or if it is deemed likely to "prejudice" that.

That includes the right to access data, to restrict processing, to object to processing and the right to erasure, which are provided for in the GDPR.

The campaigners argued that this creates a two-tier system of data protection rights, and have also complained that "immigration control" is poorly defined – the implication being that there is a risk of mission creep.

The High Court held an oral hearing this morning to decide on whether to hear the case. According to the3million, the judge has granted permission for the case to go ahead, saying that "the case has merit to be heard and that both sides argued with force".

One of the major reasons campaigners are concerned is that the current set-up could prevent people from gaining access to information they need to appeal government decisions related to immigration status.

Lawyers handling appeals for asylum seekers often rely on this right to access in order to get hold of people’s immigration histories and challenge Home Office decisions.

According to information released in the House of Lords, in the 10 years to 2015, some 250,000 appeals were allowed against the Home Office, and the Chief Inspector of Borders and Immigration found a 10 per cent error rate in immigration status checks.

Opponents use such stats as evidence that immigrants need to be able to challenge the Home Office, and that they should be allowed access to the information required to do so.

"This exemption would allow these mistakes to go unchallenged," the3million said when launching the case. "These errors could lead to an application being refused or even deportation."

Similar issues were debated in Parliament during the passage of the bill, with SNP MP Joanna Cherry saying that the exemption would "have the effect of insulating the government from challenges to unlawful decision making".

Her fellow SNP member Brendan O'Hara also raised concerns about the fact that there was no legal definition of immigration control on the face of the bill.

"Given that effective immigration control is both highly subjective and highly political, I fear it will make individuals' rights extremely susceptible to changes in political tides," said SNP MP Brendan O’Hara.

The Open Rights Group, meanwhile, has said previously that the exemption also "removes restrictions from sharing of data between bodies; a shadowy, opaque, pernicious problem" – and called the exemption a "blunt instrument". ®

Motheroffourdragons · 17/01/2019 15:46

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ to protect the privacy of the user.

1tisILeClerc · 17/01/2019 15:46

So how does all this fit in with an envigorated UK taking the world by storm and dazzling with it's brilliance that we were promised?
Is it going to start just after they work out where Calais is?

BishBoshBashBop · 17/01/2019 15:46

most people are simply saying why should he be expected to clean up the Tory mess.

Most people? Most people I see on SM and have been hearing on TV from all sides have said the posturing by May and Corbyn should stop.

Corbyn today couldn't even bring himself to talk about an extention or a PV in any meaningful.

Neither is covering themselves in glory. It is a hot bed of mess.

OhLookHeKickedTheBall · 17/01/2019 15:47

Urgh elements
That's a vision I didn't need Envy (not envy)

Mrsr8 · 17/01/2019 15:49

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

thecatfromjapan · 17/01/2019 15:51

BishaBash Well, if reports from the LibDems and Caroline Lucas are anything to go by - and they are - meeting with May would have been a pointless waste of time.

Whatever it is she's after, with her ludicrous 'open door', it's not listening and it's not compromise.

You can't compromise with a brick.

And May is a brick.

1tisILeClerc · 17/01/2019 15:51

Oh Mrsr8, really!

Shambu · 17/01/2019 15:57

Mr Boles is tabling an amendment that would empower backbenchers to push through legislation extending the Article 50 process by nine months - effectively avoiding a cliff edge.

He told the Evening Standard that around 20 ministers are ready to resign if Chief Whip Julian Smith tries to order them to oppose the amendment, which would be considered alongside Mrs May's 'Plan B' on January 29.

From article, original source: ES.

DGRossetti · 17/01/2019 15:57

If he hadn't made such a big thing of tuition fees and then dropped them so he could become deputy PM I don't think the Lib Dems would be in the mess they are today.

I still think that's a tad unfair and a little naïve. Realistically, in coalition, there has to be give and take and a mature electorate should accept that. Bear in mind the LDs could have simply provided a DUP-style confidence and supply role. However, in keeping with the mood music of the day, they felt it was only right and proper to enter a transparent coalition - where the public could know what was what.

Expecting them to be able to keep/deliver their manifesto pledges as a junior coalition member is as bad as the cake-and-eat-it Brexiteer magical thinking.

Bearing in mind we did get a referendum on electoral reform and the FTPA (OK, in hindsight not so good Sad) so they weren't impotent.

And as soon as Dinky Dave and the prefab four took exclusive power and unleashed real tory hell on the vulnerable, we actually got to see how much the LDs must have been holding them back before.

At what point can we stop looking back to 2010-15 (which seems 3 generations ago) and look to getting rid of the Tories ? Because at the risk of sounding snippy, I'd wager the Tories would be history if their voters kept on harking back to Suez .....

Mrsr8 · 17/01/2019 15:57

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BishBoshBashBop · 17/01/2019 15:59

Well Corbyn s 'letter' to MPs urging telling them not to meet the government until his conditions are met is going well.....

Cooper and Benn are currently doing just that.

thecatfromjapan · 17/01/2019 16:01

I believe they are committee members and going in to represent the views of their committee, BishBosh.

Personally, given the response from the LibDems and Greens, any Lab MP would be mad to go into negotiation until May sees her intransigence won't work.

They know, as well as I know, they'd get used like a piece of Kleenex.

borntobequiet · 17/01/2019 16:01

Corbyn was asked after his speech what would happen to Labour MPs who decided to speak to Govt - no answer.

WickedGoodDoge · 17/01/2019 16:01

The Deputy Leader of something called the Renew Party has decided to follow me on Twitter which is pretty funny because I have something like 35 followers and really don’t use Twitter at all. Grin At least they seem to be anti-Brexit. Grin

RedToothBrush · 17/01/2019 16:04

If Labour had a policy, it would be difficult for May to ignore it.

That would not require cross party talks.

But that might split the Labour Party in itself.

BishBoshBashBop · 17/01/2019 16:05

thecatfromjapan Others have said it is a daft stance too. Lucy Powell and Stephen Kinnock have also gone in.

thecatfromjapan · 17/01/2019 16:05

My suspicion is that most movement is going to come from backbenchers, tabling bills and amendments now, anyway.

May is too intransigent to be dealt with in any other way.

But she needs to get her arse in gear and ask for an extension of A50.

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 17/01/2019 16:09

On what grounds though? There hasn’t been any meaningful changes that would allow for one surely