Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Brexit

Westministenders: May dug a deep stinky hole and UK politics has tumbled in

999 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 16/01/2019 15:17

May almost certainly won't resign even after this huge defeat.

She's survived umpteen other humiliating defeats.
Her record strongly suggests she'll cling on to office with broken fingernails until Brexit (or Revoke) happens

After the ERG failed to topple her last month, she can legally stay as Tory party leader at least until December.
Besides, would any of her likely successors as Tory Party leader - Leadsome, Boris, JRM, Gove - be any better ... or bring even worse horrors ?

Corbyn has called a No Confidence vote
NC debate to be held at 7pm today.

He'll lose, because the DUP and the ERG - who voted down her WA - have genuine Confidence in her, of course 🤔

The Labour Party conference agreed their policy would be to get a GE, but failing that to go for a PV.
However, Corbyns latest statement is still against a PV
Will he finally give in, or try to out-stubborn May ?

The HoC doesn't want No Deal - but can't yet agree what they do want.
if they and / or May don't specifically choose something else, then No Deal is what automatically happens

May had told the cabinet she'd just keep pushing the WA, but it's now a dead parrot of a WA.

So she's "reaching out" to the other parties whom she's rudely rejected for the last 2.5 years
Maybe ongoing cross-party talks will ignore her and succeed on agreeing a new approach
BUT
The EU have said they will only renegotiate if the UK drops some of its red lines
Otherwise it's either this unchange WA or No Deal

Many analysts think this impasse means that May will have to ask the EU for an A50 extension.
She keeps saying she won't delay Brexit - but after she became PM she kept denying she'd hold a GE, right up until she announced it.

EU officials have hinted they would extend until the end of June.
However, an extension would have to be unanimously approved.
Would any of the 27 countries veto, in exasperation with the UK's ridiculous performance the last 2 years ?

I know on Westministenders we're all exasperated with it !

OP posts:
Thread gallery
20
thecatfromjapan · 17/01/2019 13:40

That's really good, QueenMabby.

TatianaLarina · 17/01/2019 13:41

May will only agree to a second ref when she has found a way to win it.

Yep.

prettybird · 17/01/2019 13:43

Re potential unrest/riots if Brexit doesn't happen, with particular reference to the violent riots that erupted after a police shooting, David Lammy referenced those specific riots in his excellent speech. In particular, he said that even though he had been put under pressure to support the rioters, because of the police action that had triggered them, he was right not to have done so.

In essence, two wrongs do not make a right - something we teach our children and something more of our politicians would do well to remember Hmm

Doing the "wrong" thing by the country and devastating the economy because of a fear of violence is giving in to the threat of violence. Angry

It's interesting to note that there isn't a fear of Remain violence if we leave Hmm - the concern is more about potential riots over food shortages rather than angry Remainers.

DGRossetti · 17/01/2019 13:44

Schroedinger's Brexit.

Again.

QueenMabby · 17/01/2019 13:44

@LouiseCollins28
No, I have a Tory MP but as I don’t follow Labour I’m not really up on their “attack lines”. I just told her what I thought. It’s not my job to put all sides of the argument to my MP - presumably she’ll be hearing those from others. The way I see it, the point of contacting your MP is to tell them what you think and I hope I’ve done that in a reasoned manner.

Icantreachthepretzels · 17/01/2019 13:47

A Cabinet Office source tells me today No. 10 is considering agreeing a second referendum with three choices: No Deal Brexit, May’s Deal or No Brexit. It would be by alternative vote, ie you rate your preferences 1, 2. The thinking is that the first round might go No Deal 23, May’s Deal 37, No Brexit 40. The second round would then go May’s Deal 60, No Brexit 40.
May will only agree to a second ref when she has found a way to win it.

But haven't all the polls conducted on this suggested that it would be her W.A that got trounced in the first round and a no deal/ no brexit head to head.
And if she's so sure no deal will go out in the first round (AkA not the will of the people) why put it on the ballot in the first place.
If she thinks her W.A can win against no brexit in the second round then it can win in a straight question.

I actually believe she is no longer in her right mind. You know when a captain goes crazy on a ship and the crew have the right to overrule and remove him from his post for the safety of the passengers? When can we do this with her? And can it be soon please?

BlueEyeshadow · 17/01/2019 13:48

Another appraoch from Newsthump: John Prescott to thump an MP every hour on the hour until Brexit gets sorted

wherearemychickens · 17/01/2019 13:52

I came across this thread by Richard Cable on Twitter at lunch, which I don't think I've seen linked - this is something I was trying to articulate to my DH yesterday evening, about the sheer improbability of where we've ended up, it needing a whole series of unfortunate events and the wrong personalities in the wrong times and places:

This Brexit business is a marvel. Genuinely. It’s borderline miraculous. Bear with me. 1/
As a culture, we focus on those finely balanced moments when, against all odds, the stars align perfectly and great things are achieved. You know, Miracle on the Hudson type stuff. 2/

We tend to ignore those equally rare moments when it goes completely the other way and events and people conspire perfectly to turn everything to utter shit. 3/

The conspiracy of circumstances that has led us to this moment is just so wildly improbable, you could probably live multiple lifetimes and never see something like it again. It’s a unicorn riding through a blue moon on Halley’s comet. 4/

The whole show is kicked off by a Conservative PM doing what Conservative PMs never do - take wild gambles. Clue is in the title. 5/

Followed by an exercise in direct democracy, which we hardly ever do, in which a nation collectively overcomes the insanely powerful status quo bias to vote leave. 6/

With a technically decisive margin of victory that is just small enough to be psychologically and emotionally anything but decisive. 7/

The person chosen to implement the deal didn’t actually vote for it. Instead, we get a deeply weird politician whose truncated imagination is only matched by her utter intransigence. When history called for a great conciliator it gave us Theresa May. 8/

Who then did what, until recently, Conservative PMs never do - took a wild gamble and threw away her majority, placing the whole nation in hock to the most reactionary, one-eyed, uncompromising headbangers in British politics, the DUP. 9/

Which simultaneously created an intractable problem over the Irish border that a British govt with a healthy majority would have breezed past, in that typically high-handed and dismissive way the English have always dealt with the Irish. I’m not saying this is a good thing. 10/

Meanwhile, across the chamber you have Corbyn, a leader of the opposition who refuses to lead the opposition, but can’t be removed because last time they tried they botched it so badly, they basically made him leader for life. 11/

As all this unfolds, the EU plays its hand with the same uncompromising, dead-eyed rigidity that helped precipitate Brexit in the first place. A classic and unequal clash of homegrown pragmatism and continental ideology. There’s a reason we don’t do written constitutions. 12/

As a sidebar, this simultaneously delegitimises any and all valid criticism of the EU, kicking any chance of desperately needed reform into the longest of long grass. Don’t worry, I’m sure this won’t come back to haunt us. 13/

So an isolated rump govt negotiates a deal that cannot pass and cannot be renegotiated, in the knowledge that they cannot be replaced because the only thing worse than the current calamity is Corbyn as PM 14/

And with Parliament almost perfectly deadlocked, we’ve blundered into a situation where we’re barrelling towards a choice between civil war, economic disaster and all points in between 15/

The upshot is that we have with two party leaders who command nobody’s confidence but can’t be removed, fighting over a deal that nobody wants but has to be made, against a deadline that nobody can meet but everyone is insisting upon. Like I said, it’s a bloody marvel. 16/

DGRossetti · 17/01/2019 13:52

I wonder when motor insurers will squeal:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-46891186

The margins on motor insurance are wafer-thin as it is. Having to add the cost of a green card (unless the policyholder has to cover the cost) will wipe out a few insurers profits.

Pauses ...

On reflection, I suspect 80%+ of motorists either won't bother, won't know, or won't care.

whymewhynow · 17/01/2019 13:54

pretzels - Maybe May has been reading this piece about gaming a three-way referendum. There are scenarios where least popular choice could win through especially in a transferable vote scenario Sad.

1tisILeClerc · 17/01/2019 13:57

The skit on Mums going to see 'Aquaman' from that site is good too.

TatianaLarina · 17/01/2019 13:58

gaming a three-way referendum.

And this is another argument against a PV. Now HoC will start arguing the toss about what to put on the ballot paper.

I learnt from my hairdresser that some people believe that if a government puts an option on a ballot paper - it’s a legitimate, workable option that could benefit the country, or wouldn’t be on there in the first place.

TatianaLarina · 17/01/2019 13:59

I also learnt that some people think Boris Johnson ‘tells it like it is’ and is not massive lying arsehole.

1tisILeClerc · 17/01/2019 14:02

Thanks DGR. That's trips to the UK out then.
Thanks leave voters.

DGRossetti · 17/01/2019 14:05

I learnt from my hairdresser that some people believe that if a government puts an option on a ballot paper - it’s a legitimate, workable option that could benefit the country, or wouldn’t be on there in the first place.

Make your hairdresser PM !!!!

What's wrong with that view ? We are supposed to trust that our governments will not lead us into wars and conflicts, surely ?

No deal should not be on any referendum. And if it is, I am sure it will attract international criticism. It would be like Israel holding a referendum on whether to continue building in the West Bank (if I remember by recent Mark Thomas DVD correctly).

MarmotMorning · 17/01/2019 14:12

By putting pressure on TM to rule out No Deal are Corbyn et al asking her something they know she cannot commit to?

Realistically she cannot commit to ruling it out as it's the default in the absence of no agreement.

If she rules it out the only other option in her control (should other options not pass the house) is to revoke and not leave.

So if she was to rule out no deal she would get herself in all sorts of bother with leavers.

Icantreachthepretzels · 17/01/2019 14:16

Surely a three way ref is AV? which the great British public had a ref on and ... said we wanted no part of. Surely surely Miss 'will of the people' will not go against the will of the people and give us an AV vote after we specifically told them we don't like it?

(yes this is sarcasm ... but I hope there is a politician out there with the wherewithal to bring it up if/ when she suggests it.)

In a 3 way referendum do you have to choose 2 options? Is your ballot considered spoiled if you only pick your first choice and leave the rest? We could all thwart her (whichever option you want) by refusing to choose a second option.

And finally - a PV is supposed to stop the impasse in parliament by giving them a clear direction of what the people want. But if what they get given as a result is the second best option - the one nobody really wants ... they are not going to feel honour bound to vote it through the way they would in an outright win.

Even if the remain mps bowed to it - the head bangers would probably still hold out - what would they have to lose?

I would love to see how pissed off she'd be when it was her W.A that didn't make it into the second round. But not love it so much that it is worth the risk of putting no deal on a ballot paper.

SwedishEdith · 17/01/2019 14:16

I actually believe she is no longer in her right mind. You know when a captain goes crazy on a ship and the crew have the right to overrule and remove him from his post for the safety of the passengers?

Agree with this. Interesting discussion on Newsnight last night with Jonathan Freedland and Lionel Shriver. They spoke about her intense loyalty to the Conservative party as though it's her family. Corbyn, otoh, has never been particularly loyal to his party. Shriver said that hew views of May have changed over the course of her leadership and she now considered her to be a bully. I do wonder if her lack of siblings and children has not helped her learn to compromise. And that her, presumably, very conservative upbringing and parents dying when she was still quite young makes sense of her seeing the Con party as a substitute family with whom she must comply for approval.

DGRossetti · 17/01/2019 14:18

So if she was to rule out no deal she would get herself in all sorts of bother with leavers.

Why is it always the Leavers whose dicks need sucking ?

DGRossetti · 17/01/2019 14:20

Any PV must deliver a clear, unambiguous and possible result. Otherwise we're just refloating the Titanic.

TatianaLarina · 17/01/2019 14:23

Any PV must deliver a clear, unambiguous and possible result

Even if it does, if it’s unambiguous No Deal we are going down with the Titanic.

No PV until No Deal is off the table.

Hazardswan · 17/01/2019 14:23

Lurking along today just PMK further along the thread reading everything.

I'm exhausted. By life and by brexit shitetarians.

MarmotMorning · 17/01/2019 14:24

I just think that's why she won't rule out no deal. She knows the erg and co will kick off because they know it will make remain so much more likely.

And I think Corbyn knows this and is jusing it to create more controversy and pantomime that we have come so used to

I wish she would rule out no deal but it's not going to happen

Tonsilss · 17/01/2019 14:24

She was always a bully. She was a nasty piece of work at the Home Office.

Mrsr8 · 17/01/2019 14:26

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Swipe left for the next trending thread