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Brexit

Westministenders: May dug a deep stinky hole and UK politics has tumbled in

999 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 16/01/2019 15:17

May almost certainly won't resign even after this huge defeat.

She's survived umpteen other humiliating defeats.
Her record strongly suggests she'll cling on to office with broken fingernails until Brexit (or Revoke) happens

After the ERG failed to topple her last month, she can legally stay as Tory party leader at least until December.
Besides, would any of her likely successors as Tory Party leader - Leadsome, Boris, JRM, Gove - be any better ... or bring even worse horrors ?

Corbyn has called a No Confidence vote
NC debate to be held at 7pm today.

He'll lose, because the DUP and the ERG - who voted down her WA - have genuine Confidence in her, of course 🤔

The Labour Party conference agreed their policy would be to get a GE, but failing that to go for a PV.
However, Corbyns latest statement is still against a PV
Will he finally give in, or try to out-stubborn May ?

The HoC doesn't want No Deal - but can't yet agree what they do want.
if they and / or May don't specifically choose something else, then No Deal is what automatically happens

May had told the cabinet she'd just keep pushing the WA, but it's now a dead parrot of a WA.

So she's "reaching out" to the other parties whom she's rudely rejected for the last 2.5 years
Maybe ongoing cross-party talks will ignore her and succeed on agreeing a new approach
BUT
The EU have said they will only renegotiate if the UK drops some of its red lines
Otherwise it's either this unchange WA or No Deal

Many analysts think this impasse means that May will have to ask the EU for an A50 extension.
She keeps saying she won't delay Brexit - but after she became PM she kept denying she'd hold a GE, right up until she announced it.

EU officials have hinted they would extend until the end of June.
However, an extension would have to be unanimously approved.
Would any of the 27 countries veto, in exasperation with the UK's ridiculous performance the last 2 years ?

I know on Westministenders we're all exasperated with it !

OP posts:
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TatianaLarina · 17/01/2019 11:13

Well he plays into Tory hands either way. If he meets her it will be equally spun against him: Corbyn refuses to compromise etc. So he can’t win.

Mistigri · 17/01/2019 11:13

I think much of the anti-Corbyn talk today is just the usual bollocks - people don't like him (fair enough) and they'll take any excuse to criticise him even when his position is defensible and even though they would also criticise him for doing the opposite.

There's a fair bit of that on this thread tbh and it makes my head hurt. While it would be helpful if Corbyn could get on the PV wagon, or even on the Norway boat, what we really need is for May to undraw her red lines and to start proper cross party talks with everything on the table.

TatianaLarina · 17/01/2019 11:14

He doesn't like confrontation but he gets into bed with the IRA

He wasn’t confronting the IRA was he, he was having a cup of tea and chat.

Mistigri · 17/01/2019 11:15

Btw, Sky political correspondent just posted on twitter that no deal preps by the civil service being ramped up massively.

Fasten your seatbelts.

bellinisurge · 17/01/2019 11:15

@purplecat27 , you are right. It is No Brexit/No Deal/WA#2. Which one kills people? Which ones are a bit grim but manageable ?

bellinisurge · 17/01/2019 11:16

But the IRA rather like(d) confrontation.

thecatfromjapan · 17/01/2019 11:17

I'm glad he said No Deal needs to be off the table.

I just would have liked a hell of a lot more denunciation of No Deal.

And I'd like him to carry on. So that his supporters understand why No Deal is SO bad.

His virtual silence has enabled the normalisation of No Deal (and Brexit, frankly).

It's sucked a lot of life out of the anti-Brexit movement.

It's not too much to ask him to spell out why No Deal is outrageous, is it? He clearly knows.

I say: more now.

Ihe's appearing in Hastings today. I hope he has more to say on No Deal.

It's time.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 17/01/2019 11:17

We should have had cross party negotiators from Day One. But we didn't. A decent PM and a decent leader of the Opposition would have tried this at some point in an attempt to heal the toxic dialogue

Exactly - but our current crop of politicians aren't capable of that sort of insight. Instead we have a PM who is, quite frankly, way out of her depth and a Leader of the Opposition stuck in snarling teenage-protester mode

TatianaLarina · 17/01/2019 11:17

Thing is - I can’t stand Corbyn and will never vote Labour while he is at the helm preaching Brexit - but I don’t think he’s wrong for refusing to engage with May until she gets real and I don’t think he’s wrong for not supporting a PV immediately.

TatianaLarina · 17/01/2019 11:19

But the IRA rather like(d) confrontation.

They loved it, but they were’t asking Corbyn to do it for them.

DarlingNikita · 17/01/2019 11:19

what we really need is for May to undraw her red lines and to start proper cross party talks with everything on the table

I don't disagree, but she is not going to.

And so the only other possible solution is to effectively ignore her and for back-benchers to take back control (yep!) of parliament.

Loletta · 17/01/2019 11:21

Well he plays into Tory hands either way. If he meets her it will be equally spun against him: Corbyn refuses to compromise

My thoughts exactly

Frankiestein402 · 17/01/2019 11:23

As above - try to ignore the whataboutery. The tories and dup are the government - they are the only ones able to get us out of the mess they have created.

Corbyn/Labour - following the mandate doesn't mean a pv is next. Like many on this thread, at this time it may not solve anything. Arguably, once no deal is off the table, then the cu red line needs to fall, leaving components of the sm to be argued about - only then can we have the argument about 'why leave?' and hence a viable pv.

Loletta · 17/01/2019 11:23

what we really need is for May to undraw her red lines and to start proper cross party talks with everything on the table

I don't disagree, but she is not going to

Well she's not exactly in a strong position so she will need to bend at some point unless she's ok with No Deal which is possible mind you.

thecatfromjapan · 17/01/2019 11:23

Mistigirl She's not going to undraw her Red lines without massive pressure. And part of that pressure is having the threat of No Deal taken away.

It looks as though that is now going to come from the Boles bill.

MPs need to vote in favour of it. And to do that, they need to feel their constituents are behind them.

There are still too many people (and some of them are in labour constituencies) who think No Deal is OK.

They need to be told, firmly, this is not the case.

May isn't going to stop lying to them. We have to look to the Leader of the Opposition to take that task on.

He's been a bit quiet up until now.

I hope he starts telling people. No Deal is a gun May is holding to the head of UK citizens.

It's a disgrace. It's immoral.

I want him to tell people. They will listen. And he will look like a Statesman amongst a bunch of mediocre spivs.

DGRossetti · 17/01/2019 11:24

But the IRA rather like(d) confrontation.

Isn't that provisional IRA ?

Anyway, if they loved confrontations so much, why did they stop after the GFA (well, before if you count the ceasefire) ?

thecatfromjapan · 17/01/2019 11:25

And, realistically, if Boles fails, a PV May be the only route to getting No Deal off the table.

DGRossetti · 17/01/2019 11:26

Well she's not exactly in a strong position so she will need to bend at some point unless she's ok with No Deal which is possible mind you.

How far will spreadsheet Phil go with that ?

bellinisurge · 17/01/2019 11:26

They stopped after GFA because actual negotiators made that part of GFA.
Corbyn had nothing to do with it.

SusanWalker · 17/01/2019 11:27

Just watching Corbyn. Apparently a general election is still the best way to resolve this.

Mistigri · 17/01/2019 11:28

This is excellent, good analysis of what has happened in the last 3 years and it makes a very good - reluctant but persuasive - argument for a PV.

Westministenders: May dug a deep stinky hole and UK politics has tumbled in
Sostenueto · 17/01/2019 11:29

Corbyn making speech. Saying if the government were confident they would order a PV. Again repeats call for no deal to be took off table. Again openly says along with other options for another deal PV still on table for labour.

SusanWalker · 17/01/2019 11:29

He's mentioned a PV now but only as one of a range of options not to be ruled out.

prettybird · 17/01/2019 11:29

That was reasonable

summary of our current clusterfuck situation purplecat27 (can't put in a Smileas it is all such a clusterfuck and people's lives are literally at risk Sad)

I canwelcome you to the de-lurking side Flowers

Mistigri · 17/01/2019 11:30

Apparently a general election is still the best way to resolve this.

This might be true, but probably not in the way Corbyn thinks ....

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