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Brexit

Westministenders: May dug a deep stinky hole and UK politics has tumbled in

999 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 16/01/2019 15:17

May almost certainly won't resign even after this huge defeat.

She's survived umpteen other humiliating defeats.
Her record strongly suggests she'll cling on to office with broken fingernails until Brexit (or Revoke) happens

After the ERG failed to topple her last month, she can legally stay as Tory party leader at least until December.
Besides, would any of her likely successors as Tory Party leader - Leadsome, Boris, JRM, Gove - be any better ... or bring even worse horrors ?

Corbyn has called a No Confidence vote
NC debate to be held at 7pm today.

He'll lose, because the DUP and the ERG - who voted down her WA - have genuine Confidence in her, of course 🤔

The Labour Party conference agreed their policy would be to get a GE, but failing that to go for a PV.
However, Corbyns latest statement is still against a PV
Will he finally give in, or try to out-stubborn May ?

The HoC doesn't want No Deal - but can't yet agree what they do want.
if they and / or May don't specifically choose something else, then No Deal is what automatically happens

May had told the cabinet she'd just keep pushing the WA, but it's now a dead parrot of a WA.

So she's "reaching out" to the other parties whom she's rudely rejected for the last 2.5 years
Maybe ongoing cross-party talks will ignore her and succeed on agreeing a new approach
BUT
The EU have said they will only renegotiate if the UK drops some of its red lines
Otherwise it's either this unchange WA or No Deal

Many analysts think this impasse means that May will have to ask the EU for an A50 extension.
She keeps saying she won't delay Brexit - but after she became PM she kept denying she'd hold a GE, right up until she announced it.

EU officials have hinted they would extend until the end of June.
However, an extension would have to be unanimously approved.
Would any of the 27 countries veto, in exasperation with the UK's ridiculous performance the last 2 years ?

I know on Westministenders we're all exasperated with it !

OP posts:
Thread gallery
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RedToothBrush · 17/01/2019 09:39

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-46891187
Housing market outlook worst 'for 20 years'

Call me surprised.

DGRossetti · 17/01/2019 09:45

But we can't have the WA on any referendum now, it is dead as a dead parrot.

Why not ? Isn't the New World Order that referendums trump parliament ?

Mistigri · 17/01/2019 09:52

Id actually say the opposite on mine. My Leaver friend hasn't posted any Leaver crap for weeks. My local community FB pages, normally a hit bed of Will of the People Leavemeansleave tripe is silent on it.

@bellinisurge Comes to the same thing though - public exasperation/disillusion will start to appear in the polls soon I think.

You've played your small role btw, you probably missed it but we were discussing on here yesterday how your posts on the stockpiling threads have been a good example of how to change minds without name-calling.

RosaPalma · 17/01/2019 09:53

This is a long thread but worth persevering with.

"There's a sense the significance of the conflict in Northern Ireland & the importance of protecting the peace has been lost in #Brexit drama.

So the #BrexitBorderlands project set out to chronicle the Troubles in a new way - interactive data visualisaiton."

Thread on data here:

twitter.com/RachelLavin/status/1085481105615142912?s=19

The visualusation tool is particularly stark.

"This is every death over 30 years of The Troubles visualised.

The tool is weepeople.css by @ProPublica and the data is from Post-Mortem, a database of deaths by Michael McKeown, hosted by @UlsterCAIN.

Read 'The Irish Times - Keeping The Peace' here:

t.co/NVH33D0Tey

borntobequiet · 17/01/2019 09:54

The WA is the withdrawal agreement the EU has offered (and says it won’t amend). MPs did not approve it, but it’s still the offer that our Govt (well May) negotiated to comply with the result of the referendum. So yes, it could be an option on a further referendum.

There is absolutely no parallel between a backbencher, one with no responsibilities or power, acting in a personal capacity, talking to outside agencies (however unsavoury) and the Leader of the Opposition talking to the Prime Minister on a matter of national emergency.

Mistigri · 17/01/2019 09:55

By the way, posters popping up with the hamas/hezbollah meme today is no accident.

Westministenders: May dug a deep stinky hole and UK politics has tumbled in
bellinisurge · 17/01/2019 09:56

Exactly @Puzzledandpissedoff , if Corbyn is such a great deal maker and is so great at getting people of differing views to talk, here's his chance to prove it.

DGRossetti · 17/01/2019 09:57

There is absolutely no parallel between a backbencher, one with no responsibilities or power, acting in a personal capacity, talking to outside agencies (however unsavoury) and the Leader of the Opposition talking to the Prime Minister on a matter of national emergency.

Except Theresa May hasn't characterised this as a national emergency. So she can't claim that.

orangetreesinspring · 17/01/2019 09:57

Re PV options imo there could/should only be 3 options in the current situation

  • Mays WA

(although rejected by the HoC, it is the only exit agreement currently agreed with the EU so is currently the only way to "deliver" on the 2016 ref result so the electorate should get a chance to vote on it)

  • ask for an extension of article 50 for time to renegotiate a different WA with cross-party support
  • Revoke article 50

No deal should not be an option as it breaks the GF agreement and is too harmful to the country to be a legitimate choice in a referendum

borntobequiet · 17/01/2019 09:57

By their memes shall ye know them.

Daddybegood · 17/01/2019 09:57

Thatcher met with the IRA, Pinochet, apartheid leaders, etc without preconditions but the press never reported that. Why should Corbyn meet with May when she insists on bringing the bomb with a timer on it (of no deal brexit)

bellinisurge · 17/01/2019 09:58

Because Thatcher was Pm not some no mark backbencher in cords.

TatianaLarina · 17/01/2019 09:58

There’s no earthly point one voting on May’s WA - it’s dead.

TatianaLarina · 17/01/2019 09:59

on not one

borntobequiet · 17/01/2019 09:59

Whatever. It’s an emergency whichever way you look at it. I originally wrote urgency but wanted something stronger...

bellinisurge · 17/01/2019 10:00

May might not call this a national emergency but every fucker else is calling it that.
Meet her, Jezza. Today.

Motheroffourdragons · 17/01/2019 10:00

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ to protect the privacy of the user.

DangermousesSidekick · 17/01/2019 10:01

Rosa it's probably worth remembering that Ireland and Britain originally joined the EU together - to prevent problems at the border.

DGRossetti · 17/01/2019 10:01

Whatever. It’s an emergency whichever way you look at it

Yes, but I count for the square root of fuck all. Until Theresa May calls it a "national emergency", it isn't.

DGRossetti · 17/01/2019 10:04

Also, if no deal can't appear on a referendum, neither should any talk of extending - because that's not something any UK government can guarantee delivering.

With the caveat that I wouldn't want a second referendum, if there were to be one, it's a binary choice. Mays WA, or remain. Brexiteers have had 2 and a half years, and a Brexiteer government to get their shit together.

bellinisurge · 17/01/2019 10:05

Whatever Keep Calmand Carry on bollocks May spouts, she's already asked to speak to opposition parties like SNP and Plaid. Corbyn has a golden opportunity to show that his "I can show leadership " schtick actually means something. Instead of the stupid out of his depth poseur that he displays now.

borntobequiet · 17/01/2019 10:05

OK to be clear - I was responding to the PP who was having a go at Corbyn for talking to Hamas/Hezbollah.

Corbyn should visit, make clear what his requirements are beforehand.
As Mother says, it would play better. “I had the meeting but she refused to budge just as in PMQs”

DangermousesSidekick · 17/01/2019 10:07

she's already asked to speak to opposition parties like SNP and Plaid

With 37 (?or 36 now?) days to go until disaster. It's come a bit late. It's just a mitigation strategy to deflect blame at this point. The ruling party refused to consider cross-party processes and instead paid the DUP to back them in a confidence vote and did this, for 2 and a half years, all by themselves.

Mistigri · 17/01/2019 10:12

It's just a mitigation strategy to deflect blame at this point

100% my view. If May is serious about resolving the issue it's going to take more than half-arsed talks while not moving her red lines.

I actually support Corbyn on this Shock (even a stopped clock is right twice a day).

bellinisurge · 17/01/2019 10:15

Yes, it's a bit late. And the DUP are revolting creationist loons.
But the fact it's late doesn't mean she shouldn't.
We should have had cross party negotiators from Day One. But we didn't. A decent PM and a decent leader of the Opposition would have tried this at some point in an attempt to heal the toxic dialogue.