Westminstenders: Plan B is Plan A again.

[RedToothBrush]

The voting starts around 7pm and is expected to finish up between 8pm and 8.20pm.

May is expected to lose. The question is by how much.

We are then expecting an immediate motion of no confidence in the government by Labour to be put forward.

May is expected to make a speech to calm the markets and then go to Brussels for an utterly pointless visit.

The Labour No Confidence is expected tomorrow afternoon after PMQs. Its expected to fail.

We move no closer to a resolution and ever closer to no deal.

Half the Cabinet want to go into cross party talks. Half the Cabinet don't.

May is apparently insistent that Plan B is Plan A. Which is what you would expect her to tell the house to comply with Grieve IV. Which again is bollocks.

But Bercow could yet refuse to indulge it.

If Plan B is Plan A again, then what's Plan C?

Crisis with a Capital C.

The stalemate grows.

If someone bets big money that I'll break both legs or have a serious brain injury ....

well pardon me for thinking their interests are totally against mine
and being bloody suspicious if I then had an "accident" that paid them out on their bet.

Whereas if someone bets money that I'll progress well in my career and earn good money
That's great - it's in their interest fo me to do well

{Just dipping into some French reportage, it seems the message from Germany is that there is still time to negotiate}
I don't doubt it although personally I wish they wouldn't. The UK has buggered about for 2 1/2 years and are still refusing to engage brain, meanwhile the EU is suffering (since the UK is not prepared to work properly I am losing interest in them, despite being British).
I am not wishing the UK ill but FFS make your bloody mind up!

I presume any Leavers who are happy about Odey assume that he's betting that Brexit will go well,
not that he's betting that British business & Sterling will go down the toilet

I'm asuming most Leavers don't actively hate the UK, even if some of them hate the young, the mc, anyone who did better in their career than them .....

Well, the UK did make its mind up. Leave EU and from listening to PMQs Theresa is still ploughing on to deliver it. It could be done faster if JC didnt fuck about with a pointless vote of no confidence. She doesnt want a GE or 2nd referendum

There is a world of difference between "there's still time to negotiate" (German suggestion, presumably with EU backing) and UK talks of an extension, in that the former is a very good rebuff to the latter ....

but the UK can't agree how to leave

It's like driing a car along a busy road when everyone is pulling the steering wheel in different directions
Doesn't end well

To clarify:
Germany - and Barnier - are saying there can be renegotiating if the UK abandons some of its red lines

If the UK sticks to current red lines, then its May's unchanged WA or No Deal

Ôh and Derxa^ and anyone who thinks the EU is being too tough on the UK:

You have NO IDEA what will happen when you negotiate with the USA °

In fact it won't be a negotiation:
I remember a comment by a former US trade negotiator that they found the EU so difficult because they actually had to negotiate with the EU properly

Before, with individual countries, the US just used to "fax" over its terms and tell the other country to sign !^

Namechanger By all means discuss whether more control is required over political donations, or the rights and wrongs of market speculation. By all means be critical of Soros' foundation and its choice of recipients for its largesse. But if you're going to do all these at the same time you need to be very careful about using emotive language ("profiteering") because of the way Soros has been turned into a hate figure by the extreme right and left.

{Well, the UK did make its mind up. Leave EU}
OK, does this mean leave ALL of the EU institutions, SM or CU or any or all of the other treaties.
What were you trying to achieve by this? Fewer immigrants, Better trade deals, more toppings on your McFlurry?
I am sure at least a few around here would love to know.

Jeremy Clarkson has just called brexit a clusterfuck. James may is apparently a second ref guy.

Just thought I'd say given our conversation the other day.

it could be done faster if JC didn't fuck about

Exit date is the exit date. JC could do cartwheels while singing and hold his finger to tm's face while saying I'm not touching you so you can't be cross and still the exit date is the 29th of March.

He's the leader of the opposition he should be fannying about doing something . The Tories are divided and useless - Not to mention cruel UC benefit cutting ***

For fun, but sadly probably best description of the current situation
www.thedailymash.co.uk/politics/politics-headlines/all-options-ruled-out-20190116181417

does this mean leave ALL of the EU institutions

This is my unknown too. What I always want to know is if the Leave no deal politicians and their supporters get carte Blanche -what then. There are over 100 other international organisations with rules we belong to. I can't believe the buck stops on quitting the EU?

The other thing that Leavers haven't been able to answer is how the UK is going to get better deals from all those countries with whom the EU already has a deal, given the fact that the EU trade deals include "Most Favoured Nation" clauses?

So even if the UK (with its 66 million population versus the EU's 512 million ) were to manage to negotiate a "better" deal, the EU would immediately benefit from it

You think our politicians don't have an "elitist" outlook, don't fiddle their expenses, don't ward dodgy comtracts to theri chums at both govt and local level ? I think they're all at it

does this mean leave ALL of the EU institutions

It's long since been flushed, but didn't the 2017 Tory manifesto pledge to remain in the single market ?

As Red's stand-in, NEW THREAD

https://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eureferendumm2016/3481054-Westministenders-May-dug-a-deep-stinky-hole-and-UK-politics-has-tumbled-in

derxa So no particular reason then to leave the EU because of it

Jeremy Clarkson has just called brexit a clusterfuck. James may is apparently a second ref guy

Seriously this what’s needed. Just waiting for Danny Dyer to chip in his two penny’s worth - talk about fucking Cameron and how the country was lied to during the referendum.
It’s hard to admit you’ve got it wrong. If Danny Dyer could stand up and say “I voted Leave, I’ve now realised that was a mistake. Because I was lied to.” It would make it so much easier for others to re-evaluate their position.

I think there will be a PV. I just hope Remain gets its act together this time.

Leaving the EU means leaving all its institutions
- including all its agencies -
unless we have a WA specifically retaining membership of certain institutions

NEW THREAD

https://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eureferendumm20166_/3481054-Westministenders-May-dug-a-deep-stinky-hole-and-UK-politics-has-tumbled-in

The other thing that Leavers haven't been able to answer is how the UK is going to get better deals from all those countries with whom the EU already has a deal, given the fact that the EU trade deals include "Most Favoured Nation" clauses?

Not just that. Imagine (for example) the US giving the UK a fantastic trade deal - miles better than anything the EU could even dream of. So far, so wonderful. Until the EU coughs, and points to it's markets and volume and quietly suggests that's all history if the deal with the UK goes ahead.

All fanciful stuff, admittedly. But not that hard to understand.

derxa So no particular reason then to leave the EU because of it I don't want to leave but that doesn't mean I'm not holding my nose very tightly. Thanks for an insight into the minds of the fervent Remainers. It's fascinating.