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Brexit

Westminstenders: The WA Vote ReDux

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 12/01/2019 23:01

Tuesday is scheduled to be the date of the Withdrawal Agreement Vote.

The current expectation is it will fail to pass. Badly.

If this is the case then May will have to report to the HoC about what her Plan B is within 3 sitting days under Grieve IV - by the end of Monday 21st January (which was the original date that Grieve III set).

Its being reported that if it fails that May will make some sort of statement either late on Tuesday or Wednesday before flying to Brussels in order to try and calm the markets.

This weekend has been full of politicking to position to get the WA to pass. Some of this is to push those who think that May will revoke or extent which will endanger leaving and some of it is to push those who fear no deal. Nothing is likely to be exactly what it appears.

The feeling is that No10 is currently working more to keep the defeat as small as possible in order to keep alive the possibility of representing the WA to parliament at a later date.

This week has seen big announcements from the car industry; none of which have been unexpected and some of which were connected to technology change and were likely to have been an inevitability to some extent, but the timing the week before the vote should also focus some minds.

We've had the news that 4000 civil servants from the following departments - Defence, International Development, Work and Pensions and the Education department - being lined up to handle no deal brexit, with secondments of up to 6 months. (The idea that staff from W&P might be moved with all the problems with UC is mind boggling).

We've also had the rumour that May has spoken to the Tory MEPs to inform them that if there is a chance of extending a50 and this means the UK would take part in June's European Elections. Many of the newspapers have been reporting this weekend that there is a high chance that the UK will not leave the EU on the 29th March as scheduled leading to the pound rising to its highest level in 7 months.

Dominic Grieve has stated the following, and I think its worth keeping an eye on.

Jack Maidment @jrmaidment
Dominic Grieve: Govt should immediately remove Brexit date from domestic law if it loses on Tuesday.

"without doing that there is no point in going to the EU and asking for an extension because we would still be crashing out and that would have to be, I think, a top priority"

It has been somewhat misinterpreted in some quarters as Grieve suggesting we change the UK's exit date. Its not. Its a reference to how UK law has a date set in it, so even if we did get an extension UK law would in effect automatically exit us legally on a domestic level, even if on an international level we were still members. This creates a bit of an issue whereby parliament would have to vote to make this change somehow, which would need to be facilitated by the government in some way - which means coming from the PM which obviously will be somewhat problematic for the cohesiveness of the Tory Party.

Indeed The Sunday Telegraph is tonight reporting that the Tories are on the brink of an historic split, with Brexiteers and Remainers both threatening to 'torpedo the Government if they do not get their way on Brexit'.

Pro-EU Mps are claiming that a third of the Cabinet would resign if May pursued a no deal Brexit and that several senior minsters want May to immediately open talks with Labour MPs about a compromise involving a permanent customs union if her deal is defeated by a large margin.

Steve Baker is warning that this would risk a split in the party 'akin to the schism prompted by Robert Peel's repeal of the corn laws'. And Bernard Jenkin has said that any attempt to change the exit date or strike a deal with the Labour Party would destroy the Conservative Party. For once, its hard to argue with either of them and say they are completely wrong.

Of course this also doesn't seem to fit with Labour's plans. The Observer is reporting that Corbyn plans to table a dramatic vote of no confidence in May as early as Tuesday evening in an attempt to force a GE. This is, to put it bluntly, fucking ridiculous. He would only need 7 Tory / DUP rebels (on top of the rest of the house) or some abstainers but it remains to be seen who these would be. A three line whip for Tuesday night, including for all unwell MPs is in effect for Labour.

Both the Mail on Sunday and The Sunday Times lead with similar stories about changing the rules of the HoC in order to effectively sideline the PM. The Mail refers to it as a plot between Grieve and Bercow, but the Times is much more broad stating:

A cross party group of senior backbenchers - including former Tory Ministers - plan what one senior figure branded a "very British coup" if May loses the crunch vote on her Brexit deal on Tuesday

At least two groups of rebel MPs are plotting to change Commons rules so motions proposed by backbenchers take precedence over government business, upending the centuries old relationship between executive and legislature.

Downing Street believe that would enable MPs to suspend article 50, putting Brexit on hold, and could even lead to the referendum result being overturned - a move that would plunge the country into a constitutional crisis.

The funny thing about all this news is at no point have I seen discussed whether we could extend a50 as it stands - as thats down to the EU. And at no point have I seen anything about how the EU would facilitate ratifying the WA at the eleventh hour if we have to go for round 2.

Indeed the growing feeling does seem to be largely that one way or another the WA is dead in the water if it has a large defeat. The question is perhaps now, what will the ERG do in this context? Will they plough on trying to persue No Deal? Because that too would surely lead to a split in the Tory party in some way.

A cross party group referred to the 'Norway Group' (Boles, Letwin, Morgan and Kinock) are apparently planning according to Boles, to make No Deal illegal.

So to put it mildly, next week is looking absoluetely mind blowingly crazy and likely to be explosive in some way or another.

And finally. Here's a handy tool for you.
How Many Days Until Brexit Timer

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Thread gallery
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Hazardswan · 14/01/2019 19:55

Ooo i see fennel made it on to the dailymail! Westminster regular going far in the world Grin

jasjas1973 · 14/01/2019 19:57

However, switching off the networks would scare me personally far more

They won't switch off anything, it would be far more subtle, taking down of links and reducing website capacity... all deniable and attributable to subversives.

Some traffic would still get through but of course that just leads to further rumour and panic, allowing Gov to go further "in the national interest"

However, it's all conjecture as it won't happen, as May said "No-deal is a disaster..." so therefore she cannot then choose to go ahead with it..because it would be her choice!

BigChocFrenzy · 14/01/2019 19:57

Leclerc Deliberate, not a slip
We may share in the concerns for what happens to the UK
However, you and I will not run short of anything, unless our hosts kick us out back to the UK - very unlikely

RedToothBrush · 14/01/2019 19:58

All printing presses were banned during the french revolutionary period as they were considered dangerous

Maybe we should be stockpiling paper and printer ink...

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BigChocFrenzy · 14/01/2019 19:59

jas No Deal, if it happens, would probably be because noone made a choice

Most MPs don't want No Deal, but they can't agree on the alternative
I expect May will continue right up to 11pm on 29 March, hoping someone else will blink, because she won't

RedToothBrush · 14/01/2019 20:09

I expect May will continue right up to 11pm on 29 March, hoping someone else will blink, because she won't

Agree.
May is stubborn.
Not enough people are paying attention to her being a create of habit and rarely going off script.
I'm not sure why they think she will.
She will go for it until the 11th hour, because she believes that is what God damns she does in the national interest and she will believe she has done everything in the national interest.
Then she will make her decision.

And I don't think it would be to revoke. Not if she truly believes her duty is to deliver Brexit.

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borntobequiet · 14/01/2019 20:17

Well if I were one of those shady bad actors pulling the strings, I’d wait for disquiet over food shortages and then take out the phone networks in a cyber attack. Complete chaos, downfall of civil society in the UK.

mybrainhurtsalot · 14/01/2019 20:18

I have only skimmed this quickly, but it seems quite interesting. It’s a large study into the riots. Some of the themes definitely sound familiar from a Brexit perspective and fascinating how some of the participants describe getting caught up in it - I suppose it is the crowd thing, it changes behaviour.

eprints.lse.ac.uk/46297/1/Reading%20the%20riots%28published%29.pdf

BigChocFrenzy · 14/01/2019 20:23

born I think cyber attacks and violent terrorist attacks likely after No Deal
as our enemies seize the opportunity of us being at our weakest and most vulnerable

That will of course play into the hands of the Far Right - so I expect Putin will poison a few more people, at least, to keep up the pressure on the authorities

RedToothBrush · 14/01/2019 20:36

Tomorrow's 1st front cover...

Westminstenders: The WA Vote ReDux
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1tisILeClerc · 14/01/2019 20:39

{She will go for it until the 11th hour, because she believes that is what God damns she does in the national interest and she will believe she has done everything in the national interest. }
I must say 'parting of the red sea channel should be spectacular and help Grayling with his ferries as you could drive across.

RedToothBrush · 14/01/2019 20:43

Jim Pickard@pickardje
someone has leaked me what seems to be the government line for tomorrow, if it’s of any interest

Cathy Newman @cathynewman
Very useful thanks Jim!

This Government has more leaks than the Titanic.

Westminstenders: The WA Vote ReDux
Westminstenders: The WA Vote ReDux
Westminstenders: The WA Vote ReDux
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Holidayshopping · 14/01/2019 20:46

So basically her tactic is repeating ‘vote for my deal or it’s all going to be really really awful-honestly, it is’.

RedToothBrush · 14/01/2019 20:46

But what about all the British fishermen and fish?

Surely May could only part the English part of the Channel anyway post Brexit.

What do you mean you thought it was ALL English owned because of the name?!

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RedToothBrush · 14/01/2019 20:48

That's about the sum of it holiday. Until the bitter end. If she possibly can.

So far as I can see it.

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1tisILeClerc · 14/01/2019 20:53

{But what about all the British fishermen and fish? }
Aw come on, it's a more workable plan than most.

Do people still have Blackberries or did they disappear?
Notable that they were used in the rioting rather than 'open' twitter etc.
Gang rivalries largely suspended too.

RedToothBrush · 14/01/2019 21:05

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/no-deal-brexit-crisis-banks-economic-social-uk-finance-theresa-may-eu-a8727901.html?amp&utm_term=Autofeed&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter&__twitter_impression=true
Banking sector warns of 1930s-style crisis after no-deal Brexit: 'Social and economic catastrophe'
'If the prime minister’s deal is voted down, we are in totally uncharted territory'

A no-deal Brexit would be an economic and social “catastrophe”, a senior banking industry leader has warned.

Stephen Jones said leaving the European Union (EU) without an agreement could lead to a 1930s-style economic depression, with widespread job losses, homeowners unable to afford their mortgages, and mass defaults on loans.

Whhhoooopie. Depression time.

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BigChocFrenzy · 14/01/2019 21:14

Carney's forecast of 8% drop in GDP & many other brexit goodies within the year
immediately said "Depression" to me, rather than "Recession"

RedToothBrush · 14/01/2019 21:15

The independent now has sections under the tags

'Stockpiling' and 'food shortages'

www.independent.co.uk/topic/stockpiling

www.independent.co.uk/topic/food-shortages

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1tisILeClerc · 14/01/2019 21:15

What was a 'treasury minister' meaning by no food and no channel tunnel?
Food obvious but the tunnel exists, are they going to fill it in?

RedToothBrush · 14/01/2019 21:17

www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/brexit-vote-mp-police-security-15675049.amp?__twitter_impression=true
MPs offered extra police protection in their own homes as crunch Brexit vote nears amid 'intolerable' abuse from protesters
Greater Manchester Police has asked MPs whether they want extra security at their advice surgeries as tensions over Brexit rise

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BigChocFrenzy · 14/01/2019 21:18

LeClerc Any goods transported by Chunnel would be subject to similar restirctions as those by ferry

RedToothBrush · 14/01/2019 21:20

When the tunnel was built it was built without customs facilities because it was post 1992.

So the tunnel lacks the capacity to manage customs checks. There's a plan (apparently) to somehow deal with this but it would reduce the capacity of the tunnel to a negligible amount compared to the amount of traffic that passes through it on a daily basis.

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BigChocFrenzy · 14/01/2019 21:20

Uh oh, not again ....

I wonder which Brexit oligarch is funding this lot 🤔
Those new rules on transparency are worth what we thought they would be

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jan/14/obscure-pro-brexit-group-britains-future-spends-tens-of-thousands-on-facebook-ads

Tens of thousands of pounds are being spent on pro-Brexit Facebookk^ adverts with little clarity on who is picking up the tab,
despite the social network introducing new rules on the transparency of political adverts.^

The biggest UK political advertiser on Facebook during the last week is Britain’s Future, a relatively obscure pro-Brexit group,

Swipe left for the next trending thread