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Brexit

Westminstenders: The WA Vote ReDux

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 12/01/2019 23:01

Tuesday is scheduled to be the date of the Withdrawal Agreement Vote.

The current expectation is it will fail to pass. Badly.

If this is the case then May will have to report to the HoC about what her Plan B is within 3 sitting days under Grieve IV - by the end of Monday 21st January (which was the original date that Grieve III set).

Its being reported that if it fails that May will make some sort of statement either late on Tuesday or Wednesday before flying to Brussels in order to try and calm the markets.

This weekend has been full of politicking to position to get the WA to pass. Some of this is to push those who think that May will revoke or extent which will endanger leaving and some of it is to push those who fear no deal. Nothing is likely to be exactly what it appears.

The feeling is that No10 is currently working more to keep the defeat as small as possible in order to keep alive the possibility of representing the WA to parliament at a later date.

This week has seen big announcements from the car industry; none of which have been unexpected and some of which were connected to technology change and were likely to have been an inevitability to some extent, but the timing the week before the vote should also focus some minds.

We've had the news that 4000 civil servants from the following departments - Defence, International Development, Work and Pensions and the Education department - being lined up to handle no deal brexit, with secondments of up to 6 months. (The idea that staff from W&P might be moved with all the problems with UC is mind boggling).

We've also had the rumour that May has spoken to the Tory MEPs to inform them that if there is a chance of extending a50 and this means the UK would take part in June's European Elections. Many of the newspapers have been reporting this weekend that there is a high chance that the UK will not leave the EU on the 29th March as scheduled leading to the pound rising to its highest level in 7 months.

Dominic Grieve has stated the following, and I think its worth keeping an eye on.

Jack Maidment @jrmaidment
Dominic Grieve: Govt should immediately remove Brexit date from domestic law if it loses on Tuesday.

"without doing that there is no point in going to the EU and asking for an extension because we would still be crashing out and that would have to be, I think, a top priority"

It has been somewhat misinterpreted in some quarters as Grieve suggesting we change the UK's exit date. Its not. Its a reference to how UK law has a date set in it, so even if we did get an extension UK law would in effect automatically exit us legally on a domestic level, even if on an international level we were still members. This creates a bit of an issue whereby parliament would have to vote to make this change somehow, which would need to be facilitated by the government in some way - which means coming from the PM which obviously will be somewhat problematic for the cohesiveness of the Tory Party.

Indeed The Sunday Telegraph is tonight reporting that the Tories are on the brink of an historic split, with Brexiteers and Remainers both threatening to 'torpedo the Government if they do not get their way on Brexit'.

Pro-EU Mps are claiming that a third of the Cabinet would resign if May pursued a no deal Brexit and that several senior minsters want May to immediately open talks with Labour MPs about a compromise involving a permanent customs union if her deal is defeated by a large margin.

Steve Baker is warning that this would risk a split in the party 'akin to the schism prompted by Robert Peel's repeal of the corn laws'. And Bernard Jenkin has said that any attempt to change the exit date or strike a deal with the Labour Party would destroy the Conservative Party. For once, its hard to argue with either of them and say they are completely wrong.

Of course this also doesn't seem to fit with Labour's plans. The Observer is reporting that Corbyn plans to table a dramatic vote of no confidence in May as early as Tuesday evening in an attempt to force a GE. This is, to put it bluntly, fucking ridiculous. He would only need 7 Tory / DUP rebels (on top of the rest of the house) or some abstainers but it remains to be seen who these would be. A three line whip for Tuesday night, including for all unwell MPs is in effect for Labour.

Both the Mail on Sunday and The Sunday Times lead with similar stories about changing the rules of the HoC in order to effectively sideline the PM. The Mail refers to it as a plot between Grieve and Bercow, but the Times is much more broad stating:

A cross party group of senior backbenchers - including former Tory Ministers - plan what one senior figure branded a "very British coup" if May loses the crunch vote on her Brexit deal on Tuesday

At least two groups of rebel MPs are plotting to change Commons rules so motions proposed by backbenchers take precedence over government business, upending the centuries old relationship between executive and legislature.

Downing Street believe that would enable MPs to suspend article 50, putting Brexit on hold, and could even lead to the referendum result being overturned - a move that would plunge the country into a constitutional crisis.

The funny thing about all this news is at no point have I seen discussed whether we could extend a50 as it stands - as thats down to the EU. And at no point have I seen anything about how the EU would facilitate ratifying the WA at the eleventh hour if we have to go for round 2.

Indeed the growing feeling does seem to be largely that one way or another the WA is dead in the water if it has a large defeat. The question is perhaps now, what will the ERG do in this context? Will they plough on trying to persue No Deal? Because that too would surely lead to a split in the Tory party in some way.

A cross party group referred to the 'Norway Group' (Boles, Letwin, Morgan and Kinock) are apparently planning according to Boles, to make No Deal illegal.

So to put it mildly, next week is looking absoluetely mind blowingly crazy and likely to be explosive in some way or another.

And finally. Here's a handy tool for you.
How Many Days Until Brexit Timer

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ThereWillBeAdequateFood · 14/01/2019 09:44

I think the WA will fail. I will take a guess and say not by nearly as many votes as predicted but 50 or so. Then what

Then she’ll ask again and again and again. It’s only referendums you can’t have a second vote on Hmm

The scare tactics will change depending on which brand of MP rejected the deal. If support was lacking from Leave supporters then no WA = remain in Eu. If support was lacking from remainers then no WA = no deal Brexit.

Absolute joke. Pretending to honour the will of the people when no one actually knows what the will of the people actually is.

ShallWeJustForgetBrexit · 14/01/2019 09:50

Place marking

Whatthefoxgoingon · 14/01/2019 09:51

Me too!

jasjas1973 · 14/01/2019 09:55

Then she’ll ask again and again and again. It’s only referendums you can’t have a second vote on

No she cannot, the motion would need to be substantively different from what Parliament has clearly expressed a view on.

If she lost by 1 or 2 votes perhaps, otherwise she'd need a renegotiation.

Sostenueto · 14/01/2019 10:00

Can someone e explain the implications of Hilary Benn's amendment ( if it is allowed through) please as I'm confused about what it will mean?

Tonsilss · 14/01/2019 10:05

Arrogance was his, or rather our, downfall. The arrogance of the rich and successful.

umpteennamechanges · 14/01/2019 10:05

Sadiq Khan has said today that he is planning to lead a Project Hope positive campaign about the EU if a PV happens...

Grinchly · 14/01/2019 10:05

@Sostenueto Of course thé EU is watching developments carefully. Why on earth would they not be?

Sostenueto · 14/01/2019 10:06

I wouldn't wish death on anyone no matter what way they votedSadSad

DGRossetti · 14/01/2019 10:08

Can someone e explain the implications of Hilary Benn's amendment

AIUI the idea is that if it is passed, it prevents no-deal happening without a further parliamentary vote.

The reality is it's a great distraction, as it requires the vote on the WA to happen. (Which I do not believe is the case ...)

WhatWouldScoobyDoo · 14/01/2019 10:09

PMK!

Sostenueto · 14/01/2019 10:10

What I meantgrinchy was will they step in with a better deal? Will they only do that depending on how much May loses? Is it a false hope they will give in on something? I know they are watching, obviously, but is there a secret deal, given Mays preference for cloak and dagger stuff, going on between May and the EU concerning her deal?

Sostenueto · 14/01/2019 10:11

Thanks rossetti

Tonsilss · 14/01/2019 10:18

McDonnell presumably, like Corbyn, wants a no deal.
Labour will be blamed for no deal, and the Tories will stay in power and carve the country up for personal profit.

Motheroffourdragons · 14/01/2019 10:18

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ to protect the privacy of the user.

Grinchly · 14/01/2019 10:20

@Sostenueto Thé EU won't alter the 'deal' in any significant way. They may look at extending the March deadline but that will involve complications with the elections.

DarlingNikita · 14/01/2019 10:28

Marking place. Rollercoaster doesn't begin to cover it.

Sostenueto · 14/01/2019 10:30

I see all your points grinchly and mother which are right but I just have a really uncomfortable feeling that all is not what it seems. Somehow I believe there's a bit more control of this vote going on outside Parliament. Its just a feeling based on imaginary fears I suppose.Confused

DGRossetti · 14/01/2019 10:30

Swerving the vote on the WA also leaves the EU with nothing to offer ...

Sostenueto · 14/01/2019 10:37

Yes like you I did believe the vote would be put off again rossetti in the false hope TM would come out with a speech to the effect ' I know my deal won't pass and I don't want a no deal so I'm going to revoke' which is stupid of me to even think that. So now like a lot of people who are confused and dumbfounded by the sheer incompetence of HoC and this government I believe it may scrape through. ( best to think of one of the worst scenarios in order to try and cope)Shock

MissMalice · 14/01/2019 10:39

You think the WA might scrape through? That’d be a big shift.

Sostenueto · 14/01/2019 10:40

I truly believe the EU doesn't want a no deal ( vain belief) and at the last minute will come up with something as our lot seem totally incapable of doing it to avoid a no deal for the EU. Oh look! Flying pigs!

MissMalice · 14/01/2019 10:42

The trouble is they have to factor in that the major resistance is to the backstop situation which cannot really be resolved and also that if they cave in to us, it could open the floodgates for other countries to leave the EU. So yes no deal may damage them but caving may damage them even more.

Sostenueto · 14/01/2019 10:43

Last night it was 4 brexiteer Tory backbenchers who changed their minds and will now support WA. How many more will change their minds before the vote? No one knows that's the big question.

DangermousesSidekick · 14/01/2019 10:44

It's so difficult to call isn't it with all of the political posturing. Clearly there's a lot of bribery or blackmailing or other 'practical politicking' going on behind the scenes.
This waiting is so difficult. Waiting and seeing what our lords and masters are going to decide for us, in the name of 'the will of the people', who they've never given a damn about and usually prefer not to notice.