Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Brexit

Westminstenders: The WA Vote ReDux

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 12/01/2019 23:01

Tuesday is scheduled to be the date of the Withdrawal Agreement Vote.

The current expectation is it will fail to pass. Badly.

If this is the case then May will have to report to the HoC about what her Plan B is within 3 sitting days under Grieve IV - by the end of Monday 21st January (which was the original date that Grieve III set).

Its being reported that if it fails that May will make some sort of statement either late on Tuesday or Wednesday before flying to Brussels in order to try and calm the markets.

This weekend has been full of politicking to position to get the WA to pass. Some of this is to push those who think that May will revoke or extent which will endanger leaving and some of it is to push those who fear no deal. Nothing is likely to be exactly what it appears.

The feeling is that No10 is currently working more to keep the defeat as small as possible in order to keep alive the possibility of representing the WA to parliament at a later date.

This week has seen big announcements from the car industry; none of which have been unexpected and some of which were connected to technology change and were likely to have been an inevitability to some extent, but the timing the week before the vote should also focus some minds.

We've had the news that 4000 civil servants from the following departments - Defence, International Development, Work and Pensions and the Education department - being lined up to handle no deal brexit, with secondments of up to 6 months. (The idea that staff from W&P might be moved with all the problems with UC is mind boggling).

We've also had the rumour that May has spoken to the Tory MEPs to inform them that if there is a chance of extending a50 and this means the UK would take part in June's European Elections. Many of the newspapers have been reporting this weekend that there is a high chance that the UK will not leave the EU on the 29th March as scheduled leading to the pound rising to its highest level in 7 months.

Dominic Grieve has stated the following, and I think its worth keeping an eye on.

Jack Maidment @jrmaidment
Dominic Grieve: Govt should immediately remove Brexit date from domestic law if it loses on Tuesday.

"without doing that there is no point in going to the EU and asking for an extension because we would still be crashing out and that would have to be, I think, a top priority"

It has been somewhat misinterpreted in some quarters as Grieve suggesting we change the UK's exit date. Its not. Its a reference to how UK law has a date set in it, so even if we did get an extension UK law would in effect automatically exit us legally on a domestic level, even if on an international level we were still members. This creates a bit of an issue whereby parliament would have to vote to make this change somehow, which would need to be facilitated by the government in some way - which means coming from the PM which obviously will be somewhat problematic for the cohesiveness of the Tory Party.

Indeed The Sunday Telegraph is tonight reporting that the Tories are on the brink of an historic split, with Brexiteers and Remainers both threatening to 'torpedo the Government if they do not get their way on Brexit'.

Pro-EU Mps are claiming that a third of the Cabinet would resign if May pursued a no deal Brexit and that several senior minsters want May to immediately open talks with Labour MPs about a compromise involving a permanent customs union if her deal is defeated by a large margin.

Steve Baker is warning that this would risk a split in the party 'akin to the schism prompted by Robert Peel's repeal of the corn laws'. And Bernard Jenkin has said that any attempt to change the exit date or strike a deal with the Labour Party would destroy the Conservative Party. For once, its hard to argue with either of them and say they are completely wrong.

Of course this also doesn't seem to fit with Labour's plans. The Observer is reporting that Corbyn plans to table a dramatic vote of no confidence in May as early as Tuesday evening in an attempt to force a GE. This is, to put it bluntly, fucking ridiculous. He would only need 7 Tory / DUP rebels (on top of the rest of the house) or some abstainers but it remains to be seen who these would be. A three line whip for Tuesday night, including for all unwell MPs is in effect for Labour.

Both the Mail on Sunday and The Sunday Times lead with similar stories about changing the rules of the HoC in order to effectively sideline the PM. The Mail refers to it as a plot between Grieve and Bercow, but the Times is much more broad stating:

A cross party group of senior backbenchers - including former Tory Ministers - plan what one senior figure branded a "very British coup" if May loses the crunch vote on her Brexit deal on Tuesday

At least two groups of rebel MPs are plotting to change Commons rules so motions proposed by backbenchers take precedence over government business, upending the centuries old relationship between executive and legislature.

Downing Street believe that would enable MPs to suspend article 50, putting Brexit on hold, and could even lead to the referendum result being overturned - a move that would plunge the country into a constitutional crisis.

The funny thing about all this news is at no point have I seen discussed whether we could extend a50 as it stands - as thats down to the EU. And at no point have I seen anything about how the EU would facilitate ratifying the WA at the eleventh hour if we have to go for round 2.

Indeed the growing feeling does seem to be largely that one way or another the WA is dead in the water if it has a large defeat. The question is perhaps now, what will the ERG do in this context? Will they plough on trying to persue No Deal? Because that too would surely lead to a split in the Tory party in some way.

A cross party group referred to the 'Norway Group' (Boles, Letwin, Morgan and Kinock) are apparently planning according to Boles, to make No Deal illegal.

So to put it mildly, next week is looking absoluetely mind blowingly crazy and likely to be explosive in some way or another.

And finally. Here's a handy tool for you.
How Many Days Until Brexit Timer

OP posts:
Thread gallery
53
RedToothBrush · 13/01/2019 21:56

Torygraph business section:

10,000 jobs to go even if Debenhams is saved. 90 stores at risk.

Westminstenders: The WA Vote ReDux
OP posts:
GD12 · 13/01/2019 22:02

I'm surprised Sky haven't got the HOC on pay per view on Tuesday!

RedToothBrush · 13/01/2019 22:18

Telegraph Front Page

Pro-EU MPs will today raise the stakes in the battle over Brexit by publishing draft legislation to force a second referendum that could reverse the result of the 2016 vote.

A cross-party group of MPs including Dominic Grieve, the former conservative attorney general, wants Theresa May to give Parliament a greater say in deciding how Britain leaves the European Union.

and

The cross party draft legislation published today by Mr Grieve, the Liberal Democrat leader Sir Vince Cable and Lord Livsane, the former clerk of the House of Commons proposes another referendum in which voters would be given a choice between Mrs May's deal or staying in the EU.

The draft law could in theory be tabled as early as Monday next week if May loses tomorrow.

Minor point with this.

Where is Labour support for it? It doesn't look likely to go anywhere. Corbyn won't support it and has ruled out a PV as an option.

OP posts:
RedToothBrush · 13/01/2019 22:18

Telegraph

Westminstenders: The WA Vote ReDux
OP posts:
Sostenueto · 13/01/2019 22:20

I will say it for the third and last time if, and its a big if , the vote actually takes place it will scrap through or be bought back for a second vote. There is not enough MPs with enough courage to vote for a no deal or for a revoke. They think of themselves first, then their party and then the country. They are still not listening to the people.
I will be surprised if the WA is defeated heavily. It will be close enough to bring it back for another vote. But there again I could be wrong. Does anyone know if there are definitely more for remain in Parliament than for Mays deal please?

RedToothBrush · 13/01/2019 22:22

Today the Mail on Sunday blamed Dominic Grieve and Bercow for a parliamentary 'coup'. Tomorrow the Mail will blame Nick Boles and Oliver Letwin.

Westminstenders: The WA Vote ReDux
OP posts:
Sostenueto · 13/01/2019 22:28

MPs say they will vote one way and 75% will change their mind on the day. They are very fickle......no, just bloody liars! If the WA gets through we will have another decade of the bloody ToriesSad

RedToothBrush · 13/01/2019 22:28

The Times

Theresa May will launch a last ditch appeal to Brexiteers to back her today, warning them that staying in the EU is now more likely than their preferred option of leaving with no deal

Which is not true. Unless she genuinely is considering trying to revoke.

Westminstenders: The WA Vote ReDux
OP posts:
Sostenueto · 13/01/2019 22:29

Blackmail and more blackmail. TM very unsavoury.Angry

TokyoSushi · 13/01/2019 22:32

Just had this...

Westminstenders: The WA Vote ReDux
Hazardswan · 13/01/2019 22:33

Oh no TM is threatening revoke Shock

Its just a letter from her to the EU to revoke A50 isn't it? Doesnt need to go to MPs?

RedToothBrush · 13/01/2019 22:33

24 Hours to Save Brexit

Westminstenders: The WA Vote ReDux
OP posts:
RedToothBrush · 13/01/2019 22:35

Some more stuff and a mention of how May is going to go to Stoke to say about how Brexit is in danger.

Cos that would seem a wise move right now.

Westminstenders: The WA Vote ReDux
OP posts:
tobee · 13/01/2019 22:45

Sorry if this has been asked before but what would happen if there was a general election whereTheresa May said she would stand down? How would the Tories manage a new leader at this time? Leadership election and general election? Or would someone become leader unopposed?

RedToothBrush · 13/01/2019 22:49

If there was a snap GE its hard to see how the tories could simulataineously deal with both a leadership contest and a GE. They are so divided that the idea they could have a new leader who was chosen unopposed is pure fantasy. Thus May would fight another GE which is a fear in itself of many Tories. But Labour are doing May lots of favours right now.

OP posts:
Sostenueto · 13/01/2019 22:51

It means nothing. TM has threatened hard brexiteers that revoke is alternative to not voting for her deal and to those soft brexiteers no deal is the other option. She's trying every way to get crappy WA through just so she can say she delivered brexit. But she's a remained anyway hence lousy deal. I dont want a no deal nor her deal. But by goodness we all better hang on for the consequences of peeing off 17.4 million. People! It will not be a pretty sight. So dancing around in glee if a revoke happens will IMO be very short lived with the threat of riots and public disorder.

Icantreachthepretzels · 13/01/2019 22:52

Has anyone else had this gibberish on their social.media from.UK yellow jacket accounts banging on about their magna Carta rights if they don't get no deal?

Ah the last refuge of idiots and the terminally hard of thinking. Arcane, archaic laws that mean they can shoot a Welshman in Chester with a crossbow...

How exactly are they interpreting the word 'lawful' there? They may find themselves in for a nasty shock.

RedToothBrush · 13/01/2019 22:56

Tom Newton Dunn @tnewtondunn
Excl: Brexit heavyweights demand Theresa May issues the EU with one final ultimatum for a better deal when hers if voted down on Tuesday - and then leave without one.

www.thesun.co.uk/news/brexit/8185704/
GET IT WRITE Twelve Brexit heavyweights urge Tory MPs to defy Theresa May and vote down her hated deal

The ex-Cabinet ministers have called on the PM to ask EU leaders to free Britain from a never-ending Irish backstop

The dozen, including Boris Johnson, demand in their Plan B letter that the PM issue the EU with a final ultimatum for a better deal when hers is voted down on Tuesday – and then leave without one.

The ultimatum letter is also signed by David Davis, Dominic Raab, ex-Tory leader Iain Duncan Smith, Priti Patel, Esther McVey, Owen Paterson, John Whittingdale and four other senior former ministers.

and

As British politics enters a momentous week, academics predicted her almost certain defeat will trigger the biggest political crisis since World War Two.

and

In a further blow for Mrs May, The Sun can also reveal the big beasts’ demand is backed by the DUP.

and

As Westminster braced itself for a historic week, the almost sure defeat of Mrs May’s deal will spark the biggest political crisis since World War Two, academics predicted.

Renowned historian Lord Hennessy said British politics will enter “a multiple crisis” over what to do about Brexit, the country’s unwritten constitution, Westminster’s two party system and voters’ faith in politics in general.

Peter Hennessy added: “All of that adds up to a crisis with a capital C”.

Westminstenders: The WA Vote ReDux
OP posts:
lonelyplanetmum · 13/01/2019 22:56

I find it so ironic. The shit is hitting the fan and May nipped to Liverpool to mutter about the NHS and Corbs nipped to Yorkshire to give a speech and now May is going to Stoke?

As I've suggested before

  1. Revoke.
  1. Base Parliament in Huddersfield for a while to address the real stuff while Westminster is refurbished.Try out a collegiate round compromising sort of a chamber whilst up there.
Sostenueto · 13/01/2019 22:58

Yep nasty shock if we remain when peoples emotions all 17+ million ( and more) boil over too. There's always a downside when others decide others votes mean nothing.Hmm

OhLookHeKickedTheBall · 13/01/2019 23:00

Today the Mail on Sunday blamed Dominic Grieve and Bercow for a parliamentary 'coup'. Tomorrow the Mail will blame Nick Boles and Oliver Letwin.
Blame by random number generator?

tobee · 13/01/2019 23:00

Looks like Boris is too busy shagging being in love to become leader if Theresa stood down? GrinConfused

Icantreachthepretzels · 13/01/2019 23:00

But she's a remained anyway hence lousy deal.
No - her actions and hatred of immigrants, plus the money her husband stands to make from brexit, show that - whilst she may have campaigned for remain because she believed it would win - she has never supported it. the deal is lousy because of the red lines she herself set down. Those red lines meant we were heading for a hard brexit as opposed to the soft brexit that such a tiny majority warranted. Hardly the actions of a dyed in the wool remainer.

But by goodness we all better hang on for the consequences of peeing off 17.4 million. People! It will not be a pretty sight. So dancing around in glee if a revoke happens will IMO be very short lived with the threat of riots and public disorder.

There was another thread where we were told that the 17.4 million would riot. I kept asking leavers if that was a personal promise from them that they personally would take to the streets and smash shit up - otherwise it's just empty words of what other people might do. By the time I left the thread I had received no personal promises from these would be rioters of their determination of action.

But let's pretend - for a moment - that all 17.4 million will take to the street (even though some were simply a protest vote, others have changed their mind and - oh yeah - some of them have DIED) ... let them. Let them have a few days of tantrumming and smashing shit up. Both their prison sentences and my rights as a continuing EU citizen will last a whole lot longer than that.

RedToothBrush · 13/01/2019 23:01

Alex Wickham @alexwickham
NEW: Tory MPs say a new amendment is to be tabled tomorrow by Andrew Murrison

Am told the new wording is:

"subject to a legal codicil being added to the Withdrawal Agreement Treaty which specifies that the backstop solution shall expire on 31 December 2022"

OP posts:
Sostenueto · 13/01/2019 23:03

But, no worries the shit WA will get through radio 4 just announced 4 Tory backbenchers are now changed their minds and will vote for Mays deal.Grin

Swipe left for the next trending thread